Please explain DIR to me...

[arno]

Once again... there is NO "octopus", or "safe second".
There is a primary regulator and a backup regulator.

Actually, isn't there a primary second-stage and a backup second-stage?

Or do you really dive with two regulators (i.e. two first stage and two second stage)? This would seem to indicate that a regulator is made of a first stage and a second stage.

I must admit I'm not very familiar with DIR and maybe you use a different terminology. Just curious.

 

[bwerb]

oh boy...let's just keep playing "bait the lemming" shall we?

 

[bwerb]

whoa...weird...one of my posts is missing...my last post said yeah Seabear, making ALL regs visible isn't a bad idea...I'd agree with that...goodnight!

 

[Seabear70]

Here, actually, is an excellent counterpoint to the assertion that DIR is just a collection of arbitrary rules.

Before something is "incorporated into the DIR specs", it has been carefully evaluated, tested and put into the context of the remainder of the requirements.

So far, Seabear, while you have proclaimed that colored regulators make sense, every argument you have offered to support this assertion has been shown to be without substance.

Just because somebody has a brainwave that something "makes sense" doesn't mean that it really does, nor does it mean that even if it does make sense, that it is significant enough to be a "DIR spec".

Actually requiring colored regs would be an arbitrary rule without any significant purpose. That's why it's not a "DIR spec".

Ok, follow this string of logic...

A bright colored reg is easier to find.

The primary hose is 7' long to allow the person breathing off of it to follow through a narrow passage while continuing to breathe off of it.

If passing through a narrow passage, the first diver is not going to nessecarily know that the second diver has encountered a problem for several seconds to a minute or more.

If that person then drops the reg for some reason, making it a bright color would make it easier and faster to find.

The faster a person gets the reg back in their mouth, the sooner the can resume breathing again.

The sooner thay resume breathing again, the less likely they are to panic.

The less likely they are to panic, the less likely they are to turn a minor inconvienence into a life threatening situation.


Now, I do not think that DIR is just an arbitrary string of rules.
I am currently incorporating a few of their practices into my on gear and techniques. But I do think there is room for improvement.

 

[lamont]

So, one problem with a bright colored primary reg is that if you're not breathing off of it and are breathing off of a stage it is going to be clipped to a D-ring. The panic stricken OOA buddy should not try to go for that reg, and try to unclip it and breathe off of it.

If you make all the regs yellow so that you're guaranteed that the reg which will be donated (in the diver's mouth) is yellow then that's better. But why bother? Its in the divers mouth. Its hard to miss.

If someone gives you the OOA and you've taken the reg out of your mouth and are handing it to them, the grip you train to use doesn't leave much room for dropping it.

You're left with the remote possibility that you get the reg kicked out your mouth right before either that diver or another one OOAs you. In that case its a good example of why diving with a 3-person team instead of just one buddy is a good idea.

At any rate, it doesn't matter. Feel free to make all your regs yellow.

 

[Seabear70]

So, one problem with a bright colored primary reg is that if you're not breathing off of it and are breathing off of a stage it is going to be clipped to a D-ring. The panic stricken OOA buddy should not try to go for that reg, and try to unclip it and breathe off of it.

Ok, that's the first logical argument I've heard against doing this.

 

[RichLockyer]

Actually, isn't there a primary second-stage and a backup second-stage?

Or do you really dive with two regulators (i.e. two first stage and two second stage)?

I must admit I'm not very familiar with DIR and maybe you use a different terminology. Just curious.

Either way. The preferred system used to be a tank with an H-valve and a complete true dual regulator system... two 1sts and two 2nds. For various reasons, the H-valve has fallen out of vogue, and now dual 1sts are only seen on doubles.

 

[RichLockyer]

to allow the person breathing off of it to follow through a narrow passage

Here is the first logical failure, and an indication of a lack of understanding of proper procedure.

first diver is not going to nessecarily know that the second diver has encountered a problem for several seconds to a minute or more.

And here is the second, illustrating WHY the first is wrong.

The OOA diver NEVER follows. He is ALWAYS in the lead, whether in a restriction single file, or when swimming side by side.
When in the open (enough room for side by side), the OOA diver is slightly ahead of the donor, and the donor is in touch-contact (holding the tricep) to provide forward/stop and directional information. The excess hose is coiled once and held by the OOA diver in the left hand.

If the OOA diver is trailing, then it is true that the donor may not know immediately. This could be fatal in a low-viz situation in an overhead. This is why the OOA diver leads. He will not swim away from his air, and if he is in the lead, his air can not swim away from him.

If, for some reason, he DOES drop the reg, the donor is going to see it unless it is zero-viz (and then color doesn't matter) and will be able to retrieve it and hand it back.

This applies whether swimming or scootering. When scootering, the OOA diver drives and the donor tucks in behind and is towed, even in open water.

This goes back to DIR being more than simply equipment. It is equipment, and it is procedure. Equipment is the easy part... anyone with a thousand or so on the Visa can get the equipment part squared away.
Without the proper procedures, the equipment matters not... the diver is not DIR, and is potentially at greater risk if misusing the equipment as indicated in your example.

 

[Reinoud]

So, since you donate the longer hose, would it not be advisable to have that be easier to see?

What if your buddy drops it?

THe brighter colors make it easier for him to find and catch.

As long as you dive with only one bottle and two second stages your story might work. In that case you allways donate the long hose.

But when you are doing decompression, the story changes. You will be breathing from another bottle. The long hose is clipped of, and in an OOA, you don't donate the long hose but the one you are breathing of.

If you would 'color code' your long hose, giving it some special meaning to your buddy, you would then create a dangerous situation, if your buddy tries to reach a clipped of secondairy.

So bottom line is: no hose gets ever any color coding, because you can change them underwater. The only one that keeps the same function it the short one under your chin, and it's obvious that you don't donate that one.
And in DIR things are not changed or 'unlearned' when advancing, so you don't do things in 'simple' situations that might have to change in more complex ones.

 

[filtered]

As long as you dive with only one bottle and two second stages your story might work. In that case you allways donate the long hose.

But when you are doing decompression, the story changes. You will be breathing from another bottle. The long hose is clipped of, and in an OOA, you don't donate the long hose but the one you are breathing of.

If you would 'color code' your long hose, giving it some special meaning to your buddy, you would then create a dangerous situation, if your buddy tries to reach a clipped of secondairy.

So bottom line is: no hose gets ever any color coding, because you can change them underwater. The only one that keeps the same function it the short one under your chin, and it's obvious that you don't donate that one.
And in DIR things are not changed or 'unlearned' when advancing, so you don't do things in 'simple' situations that might have to change in more complex ones.

Just out of curiosity. During decompression and breathing off a deco bottle, in an OOA situation, couldn't the OOA diver just switch to backgas?