Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[EireDiver606]

I’m not sure if I should make a separate thread about this, as it’s not for single tank, so tell me.

I recently did my first twinset try dive and really like them. Double 12s feel very stable in the water and are perfect for my height. They’re also not as heavy as some people make them out to be, so that was good.

I was obviously negatively buoyant.
7mm wetsuit.
3kg SS plate.
Double 12L 232 bar Steel.

If I have a problem at depth with my wing i realised I can’t drop anything because I don’t need ditchable ballast. I’m already too negative. I can’t swim the rig up, because it’s too heavy (can’t swim up with more than 4kg from depth).
I know that if I was going deep I’d wear a Drysuit and I will be getting one eventually.

But what do you do in this situation in a wetsuit? Add gas by oral inflation? Yeah it could help but it would be hard to blow against the pressure at depth? (I haven’t tried - please let me know)

Try swim to surface?
Liftbag? SMB?

What are the options?

 

[boulderjohn]

I’m not sure if I should make a separate thread about this, as it’s not for single tank, so tell me.

I recently did my first twinset try dive and really like them. Double 12s feel very stable in the water and are perfect for my height. They’re also not as heavy as some people make them out to be, so that was good.

I was obviously negatively buoyant.
7mm wetsuit.
3kg SS plate.
Double 12L 232 bar Steel.

If I have a problem at depth with my wing i realised I can’t drop anything because I don’t need ditchable ballast. I’m already too negative. I can’t swim the rig up, because it’s too heavy (can’t swim up with more than 4kg from depth).
I know that if I was going deep I’d wear a Drysuit and I will be getting one eventually.

But what do you do in this situation in a wetsuit? Add gas by oral inflation? Yeah it could help but it would be hard to blow against the pressure at depth? (I haven’t tried - please let me know)

Try swim to surface?
Liftbag? SMB?

What are the options?

Although the DIR message posted earlier discredited the idea, when I am diving in Florida I regularly see divers with wetsuits and steel tanks using dual bladder wings for redundant buoyancy.

 

[Scuba J7]

Although the DIR message posted earlier discredited the idea, when I am diving in Florida I regularly see divers with wetsuits and steel tanks using dual bladder wings for redundant buoyancy.

That would be my setup. Dual bladder and wetsuit.
@EireDiver606 oral inflation at 160’ is just the same as oral inflation at 10’.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

If you dive a dual bladder wing, you only connect one bladder to the LP inflator hose. I have used the Dive Rite dual bladder wing after GUE Tech 2. I put shorter corrugated hoses on the wing, removed the bungee cords, cut off the baffles and singed the nylon with a lighter to create a smooth wing. I took one Halcyon argon strap and mounted it to the plate on the right side. I ran the back-up inflator hose through it. If I needed the hose, I could pull open the argon strap and retrieve it. The left hose was contained by the O-ring on the wing and had the LP hose connected the same as it would normally be. I never dove cylinders I couldn't swim up in a wetsuit. Nothing larger than HP100's. I usually dive steels with my drysuit. The dual wing was to meet PSAI standards for technical diving in wetsuits. Funny. My DIR buddies never noticed because everything said, "Halcyon" except the wing.

If you need to add gas to any wing (dual or single) at depth without using a low pressure inflator, you exhale into the corrugated hose by pressing the "valve open" button on the inflator. Back in the day, we didn't have LP hoses and we added air orally. There is no problem at depth. Reg out of mouth. Press lips to inflator. Push button. Exhale. Release button. Replace reg. Check buoyancy. Repeat as needed. A dual wing will inflate as easily as a single wing. The merits of a dual wing are debatable.

 

[PfcAJ]

I’m not sure if I should make a separate thread about this, as it’s not for single tank, so tell me.

I recently did my first twinset try dive and really like them. Double 12s feel very stable in the water and are perfect for my height. They’re also not as heavy as some people make them out to be, so that was good.

I was obviously negatively buoyant.
7mm wetsuit.
3kg SS plate.
Double 12L 232 bar Steel.

If I have a problem at depth with my wing i realised I can’t drop anything because I don’t need ditchable ballast. I’m already too negative. I can’t swim the rig up, because it’s too heavy (can’t swim up with more than 4kg from depth).
I know that if I was going deep I’d wear a Drysuit and I will be getting one eventually.

But what do you do in this situation in a wetsuit? Add gas by oral inflation? Yeah it could help but it would be hard to blow against the pressure at depth? (I haven’t tried - please let me know)

Try swim to surface?
Liftbag? SMB?

What are the options?

Option 1: don’t dive.

 

[topher10]

the bigger concern for me is getting to the surface with a failed bc. If you can make it to the surface with a steel plate and aluminum tank and little effort, then that seems pretty safe. You need to remember that the critical time will be at depth, once you reach the surface . The full 3 mm is expanded and you should be pretty secure.

I think it might be more desirable to have a lighter plate and wear 4 lbs on a belt, but we are splitting hairs.

The problem that may arise in the future is if you want to use a heavy 120 hp steel tank. With that tank, I would not want a heavy steel plate, given you body and suit buoyancy characteristics.

Also a 20 lb wing and a 7 mm suit could be a problem, but that is a wing size issue which is not the original question.

I actually have a 30lb wing that I would use if I were a 7mm suit. In that case I would probably dive a HP100 and wear additional weight on a belt. The math says that in that situation I should still be floaty on the surface once the weight belt is ditched, and that I should be able to get up from depth (100ft or so.) In my current experience I am unlikely to go much beyond that in terms of tank size or depth. Were I to begin needing more gas than an HP100 provides, I would probably move to side-mounted doubles, possibly Al80 rentals for ease of travel, but that is all in the future.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I usually use twin AL80's wet with an AL80 stage if I need more gas. That way, I can use the stage and jettison it if needed in an emergency. Buoyancy is a combination of factors. It's not just steel tanks vs. aluminum tanks. One of my GUE instructor friends isn't really considered "balanced" by one of my other GUE instructor friends, even when wearing the uniform, when doing Tech 2 level dives due to his being severely over-weighted.

 

[lowviz]

@Eric Sedletzky, When I first read your OP, I found it oddly concerning. I think that I just figured out why.

You aren't considering punching little round mounting holes in your next batch of FP's, are you?

 

[Akimbo]

You aren't considering punching little round mounting holes in your next batch of FP's, are you?

You lost me, mounting holes for what?

 

[lowviz]

Lead, undetachable ballast. Like for a really tiny tank.