Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[Akimbo]

Lead, undetachable ballast. Like for a really tiny tank.

Why not use weights or pouches on the cam bands?

 

[lowviz]

Of course, they would work. But neither solution is 'slick'. The FP could be the entire kit. Imagine a BP that is custom weighted so you could quickly drop into somewhere for a look. Like the deep scour under a bridge in a crystal clear local stream.

I find the idea to be both interesting and concerning...

 

[MichaelMc]

In terms of retaining ditchable ability in low ballast setting, an AL or cutout steel plate with one wide cutout on each side of the very top to partially nestle a 1 lb. bullet weight affixed with velcro straps would be rather cool. It would maximize the ditchable ballast that could be kept low in a weight belt, while helping trim and retaining a smooth compact plate package. But I’m not sure how much it would interfere with the tank mount, particularly in as streamlined a plate as the freedom. Or if it is really much advantage over slim strap pockets just above the plate itself. Other than to institutionalize it a bit if it is not difficult, with complete fabrication ignorance on my part.

 

[CT-Rich]

I thought I would post a newbie perspective.

I dive primarily gulf coast saltwater in a 3mm full, rental Al80 with a steel BP and 20lb wing. In that situation, I do not require any additional weight and therefore do not carry 'ditchable weight' in the classic sense of a weight belt. The lack of weight belt initially made me nervous, so I practiced in the swimming pool where I am even heavier. With a full tank and no air in BC I can swim up the rig from the bottom and I can tread water at the top with fins for several minutes without air in BC. It is a little work, but not too bad. In saltwater I am more floaty and I have to kick myself down (or pull myself with downline) at the start of a dive. By the end of the dive I have basically no air in my BC when at the safety stop I feel very neutral. After the safety stop I ease up to the surface and usually climb up the ladder without ever touching my inflator.

Am I putting myself at risk in this situation because I have nothing to ditch at the surface?

I considered buying an aluminum BP and putting the weight on a weight belt just so I could have something to ditch, but this seems crazy to me. I have no trouble at the surface in saltwater. I also love diving this way because it feels very streamlined and the lack of a weight belt is part of it. However, if I wear anything thicker when the water is colder, I do put the extra weight on a weight belt. I sometimes wear a 3/5 hooded vest when the water gets cooler, and it requires 4lbs on a weight belt (possibly less). Going to a 5mm or especially 7mm would also mean a weight belt, although I might put some of that weight in camband weight pockets. I have not actually dove in a 7mm and so haven't worked out the details.

I would say my experience is similar to others who dive warmish water in thinnish wetsuits with an Al80 and steel backplates. This question I guess is whether this is bad practice on other opinion?

An Al BP would actually give you more wiggle room on ditacble weight. If you already own a steel BP/W and can be buoyant on the surface, I wouldn’t spend money to change it. As long as you are comfortable with how you are in the water. 3 mm is not very restrictive and it’s your choice. If you asked my opinion before you purchased, I would have voted for Al, so you are not committed to as much static weight, but it is water under the bridge.

And yes, regional differences come into play. If you are not wearing anything beyond a rash guard, ditchable is moot

Free advice on the internet....

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

@Eric Sedletzky, When I first read your OP, I found it oddly concerning. I think that I just figured out why.

You aren't considering punching little round mounting holes in your next batch of FP's, are you?

Uh, no.
I just want people to stop asking me how they can put all their weight on the rig so they don’t have to deal with a weightbelt or weight pouches.
I don't know what to tell them because I’m not wired that way.
That’s why I asked about why this is a new trend, complete with the new trendy hip and cool buzz word “balanced rig”.
I’m not going to build or advocate a plate that weighs 30 lbs just so some newb can dive with no ditchable lead because they read it somewhere and think that’s how it's supposed to be done.

 

[ScottFL78]

What would dive computer help to having a "balanced rig"

It has no bearing. I was pointing out that the video from 99 still applies today but their views of the dive computer have changed.

 

[TRobert]

Somehow I knew tech would leak into this thread. Aha! I knew it! You rascals, this isn’t a cave or a wreck and we don’t have deco obligations. Ditchable weight is NOT a “failure point”.
Even though, like boulderjohn said, this is the basic forum and regular single tank recreational diving was the original topic.

Perfect!
How much more basic and simple can it get?
Newbies please read and make note of in case some genius is telling you that ditchable weight has gone the way of the dodo bird...not!

A while back I was looking for some data on scuba fatalities and came across a factoid (sorry I don't remember the citation) that in 90% of drownings at the surface the weight belt was NOT removed. Such is the power of panic. And if you panic you're screwed regardless of what type of weights you have.

I know I need to spend more time in the water practicing emergency ascents, ditching my weights, doffing my BCD, using an SMB for flotation, etc. etc.

 

[AJ]

That’s why I asked about why this is a new trend, complete with the new trendy hip and cool buzz word “balanced rig”.

To be honest, it's as old as rec diving is. A balanced rig to me means gear and diver together are able to descend, ascend and stay afloat in a controlled way. Every other solution like ditching weight to gain control means there's something not balanced.

How one achieves a balanced rig is debatable and depends on personal likes. I personally hate ditchable weights because I have seen to many come loose at unfortunate moments. But that's my opnion and my decision to alter my rig so it fits my way of diving. As far as I'am concerned others are free to do what they feel is right, as long as it's save and controlled.

 

[Dan]

To be honest, it's as old as rec diving is. A balanced rig to me means gear and diver together are able to descend, ascend and stay afloat in a controlled way. Every other solution like ditching weight to gain control means there's something not balanced.

How one achieves a balanced rig is debatable and depends on personal likes. I personally hate ditchable weights because I have seen to many come loose at unfortunate moments. But that's my opnion and my decision to alter my rig so it fits my way of diving. As far as I'am concerned others are free to do what they feel is right, as long as it's save and controlled.

As long as you can ascend when the jacket BCD or wing failed to inflate.

BTW, I haven't lost my ditchable weight in 13 years of diving (700 dives).

In cold water I wear 7 mm full wetsuit & 16 lbs of weight. I'm not sure if I can ascend from 100' deep without air in my BCD where the wetsuit is compressed and the tank is full. I may try this in September in Channel Islands (CA). Having 12-lb ditchable weight (4 lb unditchable) is my solution to combat jacket inflation failure.

 

[AJ]

BTW, I haven't lost my ditchable weight in 13 years of diving (700 dives).

Kudo's, I've seen otherwise.

In cold water I wear 7 mm full wetsuit & 16 lbs of weight. I'm not sure if I can ascend from 100' deep without air in my BCD where the wetsuit is compressed and the tank is full. I may try this in September in Channel Islands (CA). Having 12-lb ditchable weight (4 lb unditchable) is my solution to combat jacket inflation failure.

I don't think I could either, that's why I only do these kind of dives with drysuit. To me this kind of decision is part of the balanced rig concept.