Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[CT-Rich]

A while back I was looking for some data on scuba fatalities and came across a factoid (sorry I don't remember the citation) that in 90% of drownings at the surface the weight belt was NOT removed. Such is the power of panic. And if you panic you're screwed regardless of what type of weights you have.

I know I need to spend more time in the water practicing emergency ascents, ditching my weights, doffing my BCD, using an SMB for flotation, etc. etc.

Yes, some percentage of surface drownings the diver never dumped weight. Two lessons can taken from that: First, divers that ditched weights are not drowning. That might be a good take away. Self rescue is always the best option. Saying most people killed in car accidents had seatbelts does nothing to tell about the efficacy of seatbelts.

To be honest, it's as old as rec diving is. A balanced rig to me means gear and diver together are able to descend, ascend and stay afloat in a controlled way. Every other solution like ditching weight to gain control means there's something not balanced.

How one achieves a balanced rig is debatable and depends on personal likes. I personally hate ditchable weights because I have seen to many come loose at unfortunate moments. But that's my opnion and my decision to alter my rig so it fits my way of diving. As far as I'am concerned others are free to do what they feel is right, as long as it's save and controlled.

I am still at a loss to understand how “balanced” and ditchable are mutually exclusive? If the the fecal matter really hits the fan, you don’t want comfortably buoyant. You want to be a freaking cork until the panic gets under control. Even if you are keeping the panic under control, it is still there. A guy on the surface with his eyes popping out and choking every time a wave washes over his face does not, in that moment, give a sh!t about balance, trim or much other than seeing his kids that night.

As long as you can ascend when the jacket BCD or wing failed to inflate.

BTW, I haven't lost my ditchable weight in 13 years of diving (700 dives).

In cold water I wear 7 mm full wetsuit & 16 lbs of weight. I'm not sure if I can ascend from 100' deep without air in my BCD where the wetsuit is compressed and the tank is full. I may try this in September in Channel Islands (CA). Having 12-lb ditchable weight (4 lb unditchable) is my solution to combat jacket inflation failure.

The only times I have lost weight we’re on entries using a loaner belt with a nylon buckle. I have never lost weights with a metal buckle. In my future travels, I am bringing a proper belt in case I need it. My drysuit harness has ditchable pouches, so does my BCD. Diving wet, I have a weight belt. No one ever complained about my trim....

 

[Storker]

It is my perception that few (if any) fatalities are averted by ditching weight.

It is my perception that your perception is wrong. Numerous incident reports tell tales about divers surfacing, and then sinking under water to perish. If they had been able to ensure positive buoyancy, say, by ditching weights, they wouldn't have sunk again.

See e.g. Annual Diving Incident Report

 

[boulderjohn]

Jeez, I'd a thunk in the old days PADI wanted three days off for that kinda behavior. They really have gotten liberal.

It is my perception that your perception is wrong. Numerous incident reports tell tales about divers surfacing, and then sinking under water to perish. If they had been able to ensure positive buoyancy, say, by ditching weights, they wouldn't have sunk again.

See e.g. Annual Diving Incident Report

In response to this issue a few years ago, I went through a couple years of the DAN diving reports and looked at the descriptions of the individual incidents. I found a total of fewer than 10% of the cases in which dumping weights at depth MIGHT have made a difference. I emphasize MIGHT because in most of those cases, the diver was found on the bottom with no clear indication of the circumstances of the death. The largest category for fatalities was medical events, and in most cases the diver passed out without warning, thus having no opportunity to drop weights. In many cases, the fatality occurred after the diver was done with the dive, including being back on the boat.

A joint PADI/DAN study a few years ago found that the most common cause of fatality that was preventable through the divers' actions involved a rapid ascent to the surface, often following an OOA incident, with the diver then succumbing to an embolism. Dropping weights would not have helped and may have made the embolism even more likely.

As for people making it to the surface with an empty tank and then sinking back down, those cases do happen, but they are really pretty rare. As I have written elsewhere, if that happens, the diver was significantly overweighted. If a properly weighted recreational diver makes it to the surface with an empty tank, the diver should not only be able to stay there without much effort, the diver should have trouble descending if he or she wanted to.

 

[Storker]

If a properly weighted recreational diver [...]

Problem is, the real world seldom conforms to the ideal world.

 

[boulderjohn]

Problem is, the real world seldom conforms to the ideal world.

But if we are talking about planning...

Recall an earlier post in which it seemed like people were saying that they need ditchable weight because they always dive grossly overweighted.

 

[Storker]

Recall an earlier post in which it seemed like people were saying that they need ditchable weight because they always dive grossly overweighted.

I can only speak for myself, and I have ample ditchable weight even if I'm not overweighted at all. I carry 12#+2kg on my belt, and still my wing is empty and I'm pretty much shrink-wrapped in my DS if I surface with a near-empty tank (about 50 bar left).

 

[2airishuman]

It is my perception that your perception is wrong. Numerous incident reports tell tales about divers surfacing, and then sinking under water to perish. If they had been able to ensure positive buoyancy, say, by ditching weights, they wouldn't have sunk again.

See e.g. Annual Diving Incident Report

Nearly all of them had ditchable weight that they didn't ditch.

 

[Storker]

Nearly all of them had ditchable weight that they didn't ditch.

So? Most rec divers wear ditchable weights, so no surprise there

And the difference between not ditching your ditchable weights and not ditching your non-ditchable weights is zero.

 

[CT-Rich]

You will probably not hear about successful self rescues because.... they self rescued. They go out replace the pouches or belt and keep diving. Hear is my guess on ditched weights. A diver gets to the surface realizes the aren’t where they need to be and either are going to have a long surface swim against a current or they are going to be waiting for a pick up and conditions are deteriorating. They may have been overweighted or not and they drop the belt so they can lay flatter in the water and swim more efficiently. Of the incidents listed in the BSAC report, 22 of them were for lost divers. Is a diver floating in the open sea, waiting for rescue going to hold onto a weight belt or is he going to drop it?

BCD failures are rare, but they happen. Dives get abort even with a full tank of gas. Divers do panic, if you want to calm a struggling diver on the surface, pop their belt. Even if they are still struggling, they are staying 100% at the surface.

For a diver who requires ten or more pounds ballast, there cannot be a degree of streamlining that would outweigh the safety benefit of ditchable weight.

 

[AJ]

I am still at a loss to understand how “balanced” and ditchable are mutually exclusive? If the the fecal matter really hits the fan, you don’t want comfortably buoyant. You want to be a freaking cork until the panic gets under control. Even if you are keeping the panic under control, it is still there. A guy on the surface with his eyes popping out and choking every time a wave washes over his face does not, in that moment, give a sh!t about balance, trim or much other than seeing his kids that night.

You suggesting something I did not say just to prove your point. What I mean is: you should not have to ditch weight at anytime ever. If you need to ditch weight, you're overweighted. Simple and clear. A balanced rig has nothing to do with how your weight is placed on you. I don't object to ditchable weight, just don't see any need for it.

If I ever would need to ditch, I would ditch my whole rig. That would keep me afloat for sure, but things have gone awfully wrong by then. So much I might well have bigger issues then not being able to ditch weight.