Requirement to do night dives

[DevonDiver]

Training is training whether it's charged for or not.

Simply following an instructor or DM on a dive is not training. Formal or otherwise.It basically constitutes a 'trust me' dive... albeit a simple one with less consequences than, for instance, overhead penetration, deco or excessive depth.

You either complete an 'adventure dive' to standards, or you don't. That'd include theory study plus achieving the performance requirements of that dive.

Informal 'training' may be sufficient to ensure safety on a night dive... or it may not.

That'd depend on who gave the 'training', what skills and knowledge were included... and the standards to which the student's performance was assesed.

Dive centers may require formal agency training (and proof of completion) because all those factors are known quantities.

 

[Centrals]

That's why (a) your log book shows what dives you did, or (b) you do the full specialty and get a card for it, or (c) you avoid SSI.

So my old PADI AOW card is NOT good enough to prove that I have proper training on night dive! And I need to bring my 19yrs old log book as a prove!
To avoid SSI centre is easy because I have never came across one anywhere.

 

[boulderjohn]

If a dive operator challenged my fitness to do a night dive, in most cases I would feel a profound sense of relief and leave without an argument. Night dives are very nice, but I've got more than a few under my belt, and at my age and at my experience, after a day of diving I would much prefer to by sitting back with a nice bourbon or scotch at my side.

 

[NAM001]

Yes, they will.

Archer, your comment is not valid. we all know that many will do. It is the reason why they do that is the issue. Although you may be diving with an instructor, that does not mean the instructor is diving with you as a student. Levels of responsibility is defined by the relationship. Many instructors violate policy and with no problem because no incident occurred. When an incident occurs then ethics and professional conduct comes in to play. Much like a tank being rented from a shop with no card check. until an accident happens the shop is not under the lime light.

 

[NAM001]

So my old PADI AOW card is NOT good enough to prove that I have proper training on night dive! And I need to bring my 19yrs old log book as a prove!
To avoid SSI centre is easy because I have never came across one anywhere.

On the most basic level I would say the card does not cover night dives. the card just says you did x adventure dives, no one knows what they were, that is what the log book is for. I have SSI cards and on the back of the cerd is the dives associated with the card. my master says nav aow mitrox ect. I don't know what SSI does with aow cerd as to whether they list the adventure dives that were used to qualify the AOW card. It would be most useful I would think.

 

[KeithG]

Archer, your comment is not valid. we all know that many will do. It is the reason why they do that is the issue. Although you may be diving with an instructor, that does not mean the instructor is diving with you as a student. Levels of responsibility is defined by the relationship. Many instructors violate policy and with no problem because no incident occurred. When an incident occurs then ethics and professional conduct comes in to play. Much like a tank being rented from a shop with no card check. until an accident happens the shop is not under the lime light.

i think this is pretty universal. we night dive as much as possible and have never seen any restrictions or extra certification requirements. quite the opposite. everyone is encouraged to try a night dive.

on bonaire we dive by ourselves, from a PADI operation. no DM present, but the dive op is fully willing to provide rental dive lights to any diver that is registered with them. they then let OW buddy diver teams do a night dive all by themselves (well actually the shop is closed and they have all gone home before the night diving starts).

on all or our other trips there is an instructor level DM present on all night dives. no need for for anything other than a short 5 minute "night" briefing and we are then free to night dive. There is also no need to stay with the DM while doing the night dive as we do not go to places that have mandatory DMs.

P.S. For those thinking there are official restrictions, please provide a reference to a formal definition of "night dive". If I go in at "dusk" am i breaking the rules? What about just before dawn? We actually do a very earling mornng dawn dive every trip to Belize.

 

[rivers]

If a dive op told me I couldn't do a night dive with them because I had never done a night diving course, I would find a new dive op. Simple as. I probably have around 100 actual night dives, and several other dives where it may as well have been night time because that's the nature of diving in the UK. I have gone on night dives with my newly certified open water diver friends (2, 2, and 4 post cert dives respectively), and they had a fantastic time. Yes, it was the site where their open water dives were completed, but we explored other parts of the quarry as well. Yes, I am a DM. No, I was not working or acting as a DM when I was with them. We were just 4 mates going diving. They planned the route, turn pressures, etc., and we rotated buddy pairs each dive. And as we have done several night dives together, they all have led at least one dive as well. I think the only thing I "taught" them was how to use a torch for signalling.
To say an open water diver isn't qualified to do a night dive is utter rubbish. I have gone on night dives with new divers, who now have more night dives than they do day time dives. I have seen several fairly new divers going on night dives at our local inland site and at some beginner sea dive sites.

 

[NAM001]

i think this is pretty universal. we night dive as much as possible and have never seen any restrictions or extra certification requirements. quite the opposite. everyone is encouraged to try a night dive.

on bonaire we dive by ourselves, from a PADI operation. no DM present, but the dive op is fully willing to provide rental dive lights to any diver that is registered with them. they then let OW buddy diver teams do a night dive all by themselves (well actually the shop is closed and they have all gone home before the night diving starts).

on all or our other trips there is an instructor level DM present on all night dives. no need for for anything other than a short 5 minute "night" briefing and we are then free to night dive. There is also no need to stay with the DM while doing the night dive as we do not go to places that have mandatory DMs.

P.S. For those thinking there are official restrictions, please provide a reference to a formal definition of "night dive". If I go in at "dusk" am i breaking the rules? What about just before dawn? We actually do a very earling mornng dawn dive every trip to Belize.

I think a lot of people need to start looking at this from the side of the liability coverage and legal aspects. You don't dive beyond your training or experience. can you document your training and have it validated by an accredable authority. YES you have a C card. how do you do that with experience. When you do your AOW the instructor documents your experience dives for the AOW card. Every one has this high and mighty attitude that you cant tell me what to do or not to do. Some things are not your decision. Insurance coverage is one thing, whether it be your personal life ins or the boat operators liability ins. But unless you die it doesnt matter and you can get away with what ever you want. If you want to do a 130' dive on nitrox 40 you can do it. there is no law against it. Wait till someone dies and it is discovered you made the mix and knew the user was going to 130 ,,,, you are accountable. There are a lot of boats that have no rea input onn your diving becvause they are considered TAXI's and not a dive operation. There are instructors that say because they are instructors they do not have the choice to not be one for a dive. And as such can not escape acountablility for incidents that they could have prevented. Others don't care. If you look at things from the diver that does not want to spend the bucks for the proper documentation, or a boat operator whose income relies on turning heads then everything is ok to do with a waiver. waiver???? does that tell any one anything. AOW does the experience dives of deep and navigation and often night to get around of non documented experience dives problem. . When they do it you now officially have agency certified experience dives. These issues is why I like the SSI cards as they list additional qualifying certs ect on them. I will be glad to post mine if anyone wants to see them.

 

[Storker]

When you do your AOW the instructor documents your experience dives for the AOW card.

My AOWD card doesn't specify which dives went into my AOW class. They are only documented in my first logbook, which was retired quite some time ago. I'd be very hard pressed if an operator required documentation that night was one of my AOW dives, since I don't bring my old, full logbooks when I go on a vacation. And since winter up here means it's pitch dark from about four o'clock in the afternoon, even my most recent night dive - at six o'clock in the afternoon - might not be regarded as sufficient documentation about my night diving experience.

So how do you advise me to document my night diving experience and "training"?

 

[lucca brassi]

Requirement to do night dives....

is darkness