Rescue of DIR style Diver

[g1138]

Why not? Even after unbuckling the harness belt I have to struggle to get rid of my BP/W. There is absolutely no way it will come loose accidentally. Besides, you wouldn't want to drop the weights before reaching the surface under any circumstances.

I haven't had much experience in a Bp/W. I'm currently saving up for one and just generally asking questions about techniques and anything else that could come up when I do get one.
So as of right now that's my opinion. I'm sure it'll change when I get more in water experience with one. It just seems to me that unhooking the crotch strap would make the plate less stable if the wing were inflated. It could shift off the center of the diver's back when you're bringing them from depth. It just seems to me that the diver and their Bp/W are no longer a single unit once you take the waist and crotch straps off.

 

[kanonfodr]

If your harness is sized properly, then your backplate will remain very much attached to you. It takes a bit of work to ditch and don a BP/W at depth (done it, it was nasty) since the shoulder straps do hold on to your torso quite well.

Unhooking the crotch strap will mostly cause your rig to ride up on your backside, especially at the surface when you are floating vertically. It's entirely possible to dive a BP/W without a crotch strap, but it's kind of a PITA compared to using the crotch strap.

Peace,
Greg

I haven't had much experience in a Bp/W. I'm currently saving up for one and just generally asking questions about techniques and anything else that could come up when I do get one.
So as of right now that's my opinion. I'm sure it'll change when I get more in water experience with one. It just seems to me that unhooking the crotch strap would make the plate less stable if the wing were inflated. It could shift off the center of the diver's back when you're bringing them from depth. It just seems to me that the diver and their Bp/W are no longer a single unit once you take the waist and crotch straps off.

 

[TSandM]

g1138, you are right . . . once you have undone the waist buckle and dropped the crotch strap, the rig has a lot of degrees of freedom. I would absolutely not do that at depth, unless it were the only way to get the diver headed to the surface. And a properly weighted diver shouldn't need that.

When you are at depth, with someone who is unresponsive (and particularly if they aren't breathing) I don't think you should care if their rig will get unstable, or if their ascent will be faster than optimal. An unresponsive diver who is not breathing at depth is a body recovery until proven otherwise -- nothing you do in that setting is "wrong". I would start by trying to get them up without dropping weights or undoing the harness, but if you can't, do what you need to do to bring them up. Survival is at least a distant hope on the surface. It is not possible at depth.

 

[TSandM]

g1138, you are right . . . once you have undone the waist buckle and dropped the crotch strap, the rig has a lot of degrees of freedom. I would absolutely not do that at depth, unless it were the only way to get the diver headed to the surface. And a properly weighted diver shouldn't need that.

When you are at depth, with someone who is unresponsive (and particularly if they aren't breathing) I don't think you should care if their rig will get unstable, or if their ascent will be faster than optimal. An unresponsive diver who is not breathing at depth is a body recovery until proven otherwise -- nothing you do in that setting is "wrong". I would start by trying to get them up without dropping weights or undoing the harness, but if you can't, do what you need to do to bring them up. Survival is at least a distant hope on the surface. It is not possible at depth.

 

[Crush]

I know that DIR/GUE types like to "ride" the unconscious diver up, controlling the ascent from above. This seems to work with a rider in trimmed-out gear. What happens if you encounter a non-DIR/GUE diver who is badly out-of-trim? If the diver is in cold water they might need a great deal of ballast and be badly out-of-trim. Can you "ride up" a diver who is essentially vertical in the water column? I am imagining this - essentially sitting on someone's head. No matter how I imagine this, it cracks me up. I am afraid that suitable photos might end up in the Pub...

Seriously - DIR/GUE folks - how do you rescue someone who has not converted?

 

[LouieLouie]

I think we can all agree that out-of-trim divers can't be saved.

 

[*dave*]

Unconscious divers are notorious for having bad trim, regardless of their kit or diving philosophy.

I know that DIR/GUE types like to "ride" the unconscious diver up, controlling the ascent from above. This seems to work with a rider in trimmed-out gear. What happens if you encounter a non-DIR/GUE diver who is badly out-of-trim? If the diver is in cold water they might need a great deal of ballast and be badly out-of-trim. Can you "ride up" a diver who is essentially vertical in the water column? I am imagining this - essentially sitting on someone's head. No matter how I imagine this, it cracks me up. I am afraid that suitable photos might end up in the Pub...

Seriously - DIR/GUE folks - how do you rescue someone who has not converted?

 

[aquaregia]

I know that DIR/GUE types like to "ride" the unconscious diver up, controlling the ascent from above. This seems to work with a rider in trimmed-out gear. What happens if you encounter a non-DIR/GUE diver who is badly out-of-trim? If the diver is in cold water they might need a great deal of ballast and be badly out-of-trim. Can you "ride up" a diver who is essentially vertical in the water column? I am imagining this - essentially sitting on someone's head. No matter how I imagine this, it cracks me up. I am afraid that suitable photos might end up in the Pub...

Seriously - DIR/GUE folks - how do you rescue someone who has not converted?

The point of this thread is to determine how to rescue someone in DIR gear, not the other way around.

I suppose that (seeing as they clearly aren't your teammate) protocol probably calls for a lift bag

 

[aquaregia]

Why not? Even after unbuckling the harness belt I have to struggle to get rid of my BP/W. There is absolutely no way it will come loose accidentally. Besides, you wouldn't want to drop the weights before reaching the surface under any circumstances.

Once my crotchstrap's free my shoulder straps are quite loose indeed. I have no problems doing ditch & dons underwater. I agree that it isn't likely to come loose on it's own.
Even if it does, I'm sure it's more buoyant without the backplate

 

[Adobo]

I know that DIR/GUE types like to "ride" the unconscious diver up, controlling the ascent from above. This seems to work with a rider in trimmed-out gear. What happens if you encounter a non-DIR/GUE diver who is badly out-of-trim? If the diver is in cold water they might need a great deal of ballast and be badly out-of-trim. Can you "ride up" a diver who is essentially vertical in the water column? I am imagining this - essentially sitting on someone's head. No matter how I imagine this, it cracks me up. I am afraid that suitable photos might end up in the Pub...

I found that performing this exercise on a diver in a vertical position is far easier than on one who is in a horizontal position. This is probably largely due to the fact that I have only tried this on divers wearing drysuits. In these cases, the rescuer needs to be mindful of gas getting trapped in the rescuee's boots. If this did happen, the situation could get completely unmanageable very quickly. Whereas on a diver in the horizontal position, the gas in the drysuit naturally migrates to the shoulders making it 1) not necessary to worry about gas getting trapped in the rescuee's boots and 2) easier to vent the rescuee's drysuit in general.

I think the idea with trying to "rescue" a diver in the horizontal position is that it allows the rescuer the ability to move himself and the rescuee forwards, backwards and sideways as needed. You can imagine why having the ability to move a rescuee in that manner might be somewhat advantageous in an overhead environment.

Seriously - DIR/GUE folks - how do you rescue someone who has not converted?

Hmmm... that's a whole 'nuther topic.