Shadow Divers: John Chatterton's Interview with ScubaBoard

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I agree, but don't understand why a rec. diver can rely only on his/her good luck.

I think that a recreational diver, just like me, should learn techniques to approch diving in a safer way; should continue to train to improve his/her diving attitude and auto-lifesaving (sorry if this word isn't correct). Only in this way I can reduce the risks, given that very often I'm alone (when I dive with a new buddy, or I get lost, ....).

Ciao,
A.

(Not to hijack this thread...)

I think the big training agencies need to give you some tips on it rather than going through life with blinders on and "assuming" that it will always be the perfect world of attentive insta-buddies!

Except for some training dives (wreck specialty)I did when I was recently in Florida (where I was diving with an instructor, obviously) I felt that all of my other dives had the "same ocean" type of buddy system...not that it makes it right, but I was mostly on shallow reefs, where I could be at the surface in a jif if necessary. After the first dives, I made a quick mention of staying with me and it got slightly better, but....
 
I have recently seen this in action. Two divers on a boat becoming insta-buddies right before the dive on a wreck in about 115' of water. One buddy being a relative newbie (A/O/W), and one being experienced.

Upon exiting the water at the end of the dive the newbie asked if anyone knew how long he had been down. He did not have a computer, and had forgotten his watch. The newbie soon started complaining about tingling in his hands and arms, and seemd a little disoriented.

The newbie diver was diving air, while his insta-buddy was on nitrox. The newbie was scaping bottom a lot on the dive. He also blew his safety stop.

The diagnosis was a minor DCS1 hit, so he went for a ride or two.


Wow...there's so much wrong with that who knows where to start!!! More proof that "the card" doesn't make you an advanced diver!
 
(Not to hijack this thread...)
I felt that all of my other dives had the "same ocean" type of buddy system...not that it makes it right, but I was mostly on shallow reefs, where I could be at the surface in a jif if necessary. After the first dives, I made a quick mention of staying with me and it got slightly better, but....

I've noticed this quite a bit, too. Most of my dive buddies, insta-or-not, tend to have a "stay within sight, anything else is fair game" kind of attitude that works just fine on a reef in calm conditions. In those cases, it really feels like any problem that occurs leaves you to your own devices, and you'll either solve it yourself or be in some deep @(*& by the time the buddy even notices you're not around.

But a couple of my buddies are just great; they review signals, come up with a pre-dive plan, stick together ("physical contact is not a bad thing") and make it clear that there is no shame in calling or thumbing a dive. These are the guys that convinced me that the buddy system really works, and someone can be immediately on-hand even when a catastrophic accident strikes. I would just hope that by the time a diver "graduates" to cave/wreck diving, he will have found some reliable buddies!
 
Which was his point, as I read them - he (strongly) believed the original account was misleading and inaccurate. Looking at what he has done over the years, it is a little hard for me to describe his book as 'sour grapes', however. I don't know (and don't care) which account, if either, is 'true'. I have always viewed Gary as simple, blunt, and opinionated about things that he knows, and without opinion (or interest) regarding things he doesn't. If Chatterton and Kohler are viewed by some as 'showboats', then Gentile is truly an 'anti-showboat', and that may be part of the basis of the animated response in his book. I think both books are good reads and the enjoyment of reading them doesn't require me to form an opinion regarding which account is most accurate.

However, his "discrediting" tirades seemed to "cheapen" his opinion rather than state facts as he perceived them...hence the feeling of "sour grapes". I would have liked his book much better if he had just stated his account, and let the reader make any comparison between the two....just my thought on the whole mess...

as with you, I'm not about to form an opinion of who's story is accurate and who's is bunk...both books are good reads, and I agree that Gary's books are more historical accounts than "stories"...
 
I've noticed this quite a bit, too. Most of my dive buddies, insta-or-not, tend to have a "stay within sight, anything else is fair game" kind of attitude that works just fine on a reef in calm conditions. In those cases, it really feels like any problem that occurs leaves you to your own devices, and you'll either solve it yourself or be in some deep @(*& by the time the buddy even notices you're not around.

But a couple of my buddies are just great; they review signals, come up with a pre-dive plan, stick together ("physical contact is not a bad thing") and make it clear that there is no shame in calling or thumbing a dive. These are the guys that convinced me that the buddy system really works, and someone can be immediately on-hand even when a catastrophic accident strikes. I would just hope that by the time a diver "graduates" to cave/wreck diving, he will have found some reliable buddies!


My regular dives buddies are all great...we stick together and are usually within an arm's reach of each other (or we know where they are...my normal buddy always knows that I'm about half a body length behind him and maybe a foot above him) WE know each other's gear config's, and when someone new joins us, we're right on them to see what they are using where it is, and showing them our gear...
 
The Last Dive, although a good story with some very interesting information in it, is not nearly so well written.

I agree. IMO, the paperback version that I read of The Last Dive could have easily been 300 pages shorter. Good information, but that information was stretched out way too far.

David
 
This may be a bit long, but there is a lot of background to cover.

"One thing that leaped out at me was the reference to the exploits of some "cutting edge warm-water divers" influencing some of U-who team to switch to trimix. I wonder if this reference had anything to do with the WKPP guys, who iirc had been doing some long dives at almost exactly the same 230-250ft cave dives around then. I'm sure there must have been many others using trimix around then as well, but that caught my attention."

That would be Billy Deans from Key West, he was before the WKPP or at least he was talking about it before George was starting his "stroke" rants. The guy who really started to get the information out to all the divers was Mike Menduna and his Aqua Corps magazine. Hell, some even say that Mike was the one who came up with the term "Technical Diving."

The U-869 dives were in the early 90s and at that time almost all dives were on air going down to 250 feet with 100% O2 at 20 and 10 foot stops on rare occasions, we just did not have mixed gas and we barely had NITROX. The major dive magazine at the time SKIN DIVER was putting out editorials about how NITROX would kill divers and should be made illegal. In my own history, I got my NITROX cert through IANTD in September of 1993, my number is 6247, check out your number and tell me what they are up to after 14 years.

For some others:

Gasses: Mix, we had some but it was all voodoo in that we had no good tables and no mix computers at all. What a few did was dive a 21/25 mix with 100% O2 for DECO and use air tables. It works most of the time, for some, maybe, or maybe not. But you had to mix your own as no dive shop had it anywhere in the Northeast. There was just no professional support for mix and no agency sponsored insurance coverage for the shops.

Equipment: We had mostly normal sport diver stuff. Jacket BC's replaced the horse collar ones in the early 80s and Dive Rite came out with the "classic" wings in the late 80s or about 1990. We all had harnesses that we bought from Miller diving or made ourselves to put the D-rings on. Then we put on the jacket BC over the harness, that is of course if you were diving a wet suit as we did not use a BC with a dry suit, no need just add air to the suit as required. Deep regulators were almost all Poseidon's. Computers were the EDGE which looked and weighed about the same as a blue brick. For computers, US Divers had the MONITOR and SUNTO had a few out by the early 90s, but they were all air computers. I think Dive Rite had one of the first NITROX computers by 1995 or so but it may have been a few years later

Teams: The North East guys tend to be much more solo as what we were doing was artifact collection. When you do that or start digging you can forget about any team interaction, you are in a silt out and had to be prepared for it.

But, did anyone miss the part in Shadow Divers where the Atlantic Wreck Divers are described? They were, and still are, a TEAM. They didn't do all of the drills that some do today, but a tighter team underwater I don't think you will ever see. I have dove with them a number of times and if they were working on a project, each one had specific tasks and responsibilities that were all worked out prior to ever getting onto the boat. If they need to, they designed tools and practiced working with them, if a tight area need to be accessed, well one guy would strip Pink Man's tanks off of him and he would go into the hole with a takn on a long hose, get handed the tools, do the job, get pulled out and be dressed back into his gear with no loss of time. They were efficient in just about everything they wanted to do be it getting a porthole, drinking a lot of beer, or making asses of themselves.

Training: The training that people talk about today has been derived from these earler dives and practices. The cavers have been a very, very, large part of that as they have at least 3 advantages over wreckers 1) the ability to dive year round 2) They dive more often (I'd love to be able to park within 100 yards of a wreck and walk to it) 3) a relatively more controlled environment (not necessarily a less hostile one, big difference so don't flame me) to work things out in.

What is missing in the new training is the human price of the close calls that we all had and that we learned from. All you see is the rules and perhaps a short discussion of them. Your classes and lessons were paid for in FEAR. Until you see a diver at 4 to 6 hours after a real close call or when they realize that they are "The Survivor" and their best friend is not; when you see the shock start to hit hard when it sinks in that his buddy and friend is not coming back; when you see them kind of roll up into a ball and you have to hug them to pull them through; only then will you know what it took to get where we are today.

Pete Johnson
 
Wow...there's so much wrong with that who knows where to start!!! More proof that "the card" doesn't make you an advanced diver!

Tell me about it. I didn't hear him say it, but when he found out how deep the wreck was he said "that's goofy deep". I found that out after we were all up from the dive.
 
I have yet to read Gentile's book. I downed "The Last Dive" in about 2 days. "Shadow Divers" was done in about 3. Next up was "Deep Descent," and that one took a little longer. Maybe 5. I'm currently on "Diver Down."

I loved Shadow Divers. What a great book. I don't really want to pick up Gentile's book because of what so many have said about his sour grapes attitude. I know I will pick it up one day, I just don't know when that will be.
 
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