Stuck with beginner diver who runs out of air in 20 mins?

[scbaNE2179]

Perhaps most don't carry enough for everyone and are afraid if they advertised it they wouldn't have enough to meet the demand? This way the people that really need/request them can get them? I generally request these for my husband when making reservations (big guy & photographer - I think the photography part is more the issue for him.) I seem to recall running into a couple boats that didn't actually have them but would make a point of getting them on board if requested in advance.

It would be good if all liveaboards had a couple big tanks squirreled away for the heavy breathers that didn't know or think to ask in advance, which would help with situations like the one that started this thread. Though maybe still not enough, in this case.

Not sure if it's a demand thing as it is not a common request that most divers make. Most of the livaboard boats I've been on have at least 2-4 AL100 tanks but again, I have yet to see any info about larger capacity tanks as written on their website, brochures, etc. Some boats offers these tanks for free, others may charge you for it so it never hurts to ask if they are available and if so, if there's a charge to use them.

 

[TMHeimer]

I would be blowing my stack with the dive operator. That kind of thing is absolutely intolerable on a liveaboard.

I've been away and haven't read every post. I agree here. I've never done a liveaboard, but have done a fair bit of charter trips. Never ran into a dive being cut to 20 minutes. Discussing the reasons this diver consumed so much is not the issue. The dive op solving such a problem is. If no refund is given, I'd rake them over the coals. It costs a lot of money to go down there as well as the liveaboard itself. So even if a partial refund is given, that doesn't go toward airfare, etc.

 

[Diver2018]

Solo card and a pony tank? If the liveaboard requires you to have a DM in the water, you could suggest that he carry an extra tank for the new diver or require him to get on the DM's Octo to finish the dive. The DM could also give the new diver a few "tune up" dives and surface training to improve his consumption rate.


Good luck,
Jay

Wait this is a "thing" to share the DM air for 20 minutes on an Octo in a "non-emergency" situation?

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

I have finished a few dives on the "hose of shame". I bought my wife a 5 foot hose for her Octo as well so I can breathe her tank if necessary. I am usually not the guy with the least air, but depending on the group, it has happened before. Being 6'1", 235 pounds, and in generally decent shape for 49 years old, I still use more air than I would like to admit, although no where near the air that I did when I first started out.

The point of being on any dive boat is for everyone to enjoy their dive and if getting on someone else's hose for 10 minutes to extend everyone elses dive, I'm perfectly ok with that. My wife and I tell the DM and other divers in advance that if you see me on her octo, everything is fine. Most of the time the DM will tell me to come get on their hose if I need to as well. When I hit 1000 psi, I'll check my wife's air and I found she is at 1500, I'll usually help her use her tank to 1000, unless we're starting to ascend for the "rolling" safety stop (usually the last 10 to 15 minutes of the dive are starting to get pretty shallow-less than 40 feet)

The moral of the story is I never want to be the guy that cuts anyone else's Dive short...most of us work very hard to afford a dive trip and cutting their dive short Would absolutely make me feel horrible. I would say that on most of my trips to Cozumel or Roatan, I have seen someone on "The Hose" at some point or another. Not sure I've seen it for 20 minutes, but absolutely for 10. By that point we're close to the safety stop and the diver goes back to their tank.

For serious air hogs, I have seen the DM carry a 30 of 40 cf tank for the diver, clip it off midway through, then put them back on their own tank to finish the dive.

That was a long answer to your question. The short version is....yes, very much so in Cozumel or Roatan.

Safe travels,
Jay

 

[yle]

Wait this is a "thing" to share the DM air for 20 minutes on an Octo in a "non-emergency" situation?

Not a thing for prudent people, but apparently a thing for a lot of people.

 

[yle]

Not sure if it's a demand thing as it is not a common request that most divers make. Most of the livaboard boats I've been on have at least 2-4 AL100 tanks but again, I have yet to see any info about larger capacity tanks as written on their website, brochures, etc. Some boats offers these tanks for free, others may charge you for it so it never hurts to ask if they are available and if so, if there's a charge to use them.

Worth noting, however, that AL100's are not a magic cure-all for people that go through an AL80 in 20 minutes. Simple math says the same person would go through an AL100 in 25 minutes. Not sure that extra 5 minutes would solve the problem.

 

[Diesel_Diver]

Not trying to sound like an *******, but really. Obviously everyone on here must have been born with a regulator in their mouth!!! Maybe help the new diver with his air consumption. You seem to forget we were all air hogs at one time.

 

[Trivan]

Not trying to sound like an *******, but really. Obviously everyone on here must have been born with a regulator in their mouth!!! Maybe help the new diver with his air consumption. You seem to forget we were all air hogs at one time.

I think most everyone is willing to help, the issue is that the live aboard made it a mandatory group dive and the entire group was affected. The expectation is to be able to dive close to your own air consumption for most of the dives. This seriously s affects the economic of the vacation for those whom dive time are cut by 50pct.

 

[Damselfish]

Worth noting, however, that AL100's are not a magic cure-all for people that go through an AL80 in 20 minutes. Simple math says the same person would go through an AL100 in 25 minutes. Not sure that extra 5 minutes would solve the problem.

That's certainly true, it's only a solution for someone who uses moderately more air for maybe a good reason - only a small part of a temporary solution for the 20 minute diver. It's possible having more air even if only 25% might make someone relax a little which could also help a bit. (I suppose it's equally possible the bigger tank could throw them off enough to negate the advantage. )

Not trying to sound like an *******, but really. Obviously everyone on here must have been born with a regulator in their mouth!!! Maybe help the new diver with his air consumption. You seem to forget we were all air hogs at one time.

Not all actually, but I think there have been suggestions to that effect. But helping the new diver get to a good enough point could wind up taking much of the trip. And the paying customers shouldn't be expected to do it (unless someone wants to), nor have their dives massively shortened beyond what nearly anyone would consider acceptable for most of a trip. Any liveaboard or dive op really needs to be able to handle a situation like this better. If there's no way they can or will, they should tell potential customers that up front. ("All dives must be in a group with the divemaster, the group must ascend when the first diver gets low on air." That would go a long way to steering away any customers that care about this.)

Really, it would be best if a new diver who knew they consumed air like this didn't put themselves in a situation like this. Dive where they can pay for a private DM who can work with them. Unfortunately I'd guess some divers in this situation might not know what they don't know yet, and won't think of it. So it's left to a dive op to deal with it.

 

[scubafanatic]

Not sure if it's a demand thing as it is not a common request that most divers make. Most of the livaboard boats I've been on have at least 2-4 AL100 tanks but again, I have yet to see any info about larger capacity tanks as written on their website, brochures, etc. Some boats offers these tanks for free, others may charge you for it so it never hurts to ask if they are available and if so, if there's a charge to use them.

It's been my experience that most liveaboards offer larger tanks, usually with a small $ upcharge, some examples:

Turks @ Caicos Explorer (I'm the one who actually persuaded this boat to purchase a couple of AL 100's for me and future guests)
Nautilus Explorer Faber steel 100's along with standard AL 80's
Belize Sun Dancer: did this boat in 2011, they rented me a LP 95 steel from a shore based dive op.
Texas Flower Gardens: they (liveaboards) offer standard AL 80's but allowed divers to bring their own personal tanks of ANY size/capacity, as long as it's a SINGLE tank (no doubles)
Valentina (after a bit of research I discovered they have AL 100's available, with standard AL 80's) I'll be in touch with them on this as I'm planning a 11/2018 trip to the Socorros with them,
Aggressor: Okeanos Aggressor II (Costa Rica) offers AL 100's, with AL80 as standard. I've got a 7/2018 trip already booked with them.