TDI-IANTD-PADI Tec Courses

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At this level it's all about the instructor. Many have instructor certs from a few agencies anyway.

Really figure out what kind of diving you want to do and find a good instructor that has been doing that kind of diving for years. Talk to the instructor before you decide. Make sure they are a good fit for you and where you want to take your diving.

When I took my first tec classes I learned just as much at lunch and boat rides talking and listening to the instructor as I did in the classroom itself.

FWIW I have certs from four different agencies. OW, AOW and some other rec stuff just happened to be what the shop I liked worked with. After that is was all about finding the right instructor for what I wanted.
 
The Advanced Recreational Trimix Diver permits 48m max depth, but is limited to 15 min deco maximum. Is a similar deco restriction placed on the AN/DP level course? I think AN has that 15 min deco restriction... but surely DP takes you further?

I just completed the AN/DP written portion (dives are in two weeks). No decompression with AN, the DP limits you to 150', but no limit on how much decompression obligation you'd like to incur (. . .you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?). In theory you need the AN to get a shop to sell you deco gas for the DP, FWIW, the shop I went to had no trouble selling me the tank and EAN80.

Part of the reason I selected TDI over PADI, is I appreciate being treated as an adult
 
Part of the reason I selected TDI over PADI, is I appreciate being treated as an adult

In what way do you feel PADI treats people like children?

Tec45...the equivalent to DP, provides >100%O2 use, unlimited deco with a single deco tank, to a depth of 45m/150ft. Hardly kindergarten..
 
In what way do you feel PADI treats people like children?

Intro to TEC, TEC40, TEC45, TEC50. What's the difference (other than enhancing the trainer's revenue stream)?

For me 150' is deeper than I want to go on air. I want the AN/DP for extended bottom time.

Do your really believe a newly certified TEC45 diver is better suited to lead a dive to 150' more than a TDI AN/DP (I think the correct answer is "hell no, neither")
 
I notice that IANTD has several (3?) entry-level trimix courses/qualifications.

The 'Recreational Trimix Diver' does get a diver onto helium quicker, but in a limited way. For instance, I read that it is a no-stop diving course..."to perform no stop dives using Recreational Trimix Gas mixtures within the limits of the existing qualification level to a maximum depth limit of 39 msw (130 fsw)". I don't see that as a direct comparison to AN/DP at all... which is a decompression course, extended depth range and permitting use of >40%O2.

The Advanced Recreational Trimix Diver permits 48m max depth, but is limited to 15 min deco maximum. Is a similar deco restriction placed on the AN/DP level course? I think AN has that 15 min deco restriction... but surely DP takes you further? The PADI Tec40 (AN equiv) permits 40m and limits to 10 min (non-accelerated) deco. The Tec45 (AN/DP equiv) is much closer... allowing 45m, but with no deco restrictions other than a single deco mix to be used.

The Normoxic Trimix Diver (60m/min19%O2/2 deco mixes) seem more in line with AN/DP/ER or Tec50. Where Tec50 includes normoxic trimix dives, a very similar capability end-state is achieved.

I wouldn't say three entry level courses. I wouldn't say diving to 160' or 200' is entry level in anyone's mind.
The course I was referring to was Advanced Recreational Trimix. In my opinion, it's superior in every way to AN&DP. Sure, one could argue that you're limited to 15 minutes of deco with the ART class, but how many of us are really racking up 15 minutes of deco on pure O2 at the recreational level? The ART is a much faster progression than the PADI Tec route. By the way, for ART and Normoxic Trimix, you are NOT limited to one or two deco gases (at least with IANTD)
 
Intro to TEC, TEC40, TEC45, TEC50. What's the difference (other than enhancing the trainer's revenue stream)?

You are aware that these were all one single program until a few years ago? The 'Tech Deep Diver' course. They were split into 3 (Tec40/45/50) for two reasons:

1) To bring them more in line with other agencies programs (i.e. AN/DP/ER).

2) To permit more progressive training, interspersed with the (often recommended) option to stagger development with periods of reinforcement/experience-building. (i.e. the diver can go away between modules, do some dives at that certification level, build their skills, before returning for the next stage).

Personally, I thought the old 'Tech Deep' course was a better money-earner. One large lump sum to the instructor. A nicer "revenue stream". It was worse for students though - as they had to have the ability to progress straight through to ER/Tec50 level in order to gain any qualification. There were a lot more 'wash-outs' and 're-takes' back then. Instructor still got their money...

It offers a nice linear progression, balancing the realistic training loads and the development of experience/competency against the performance demands made upon the diver and the relative risks they are exposed to. It is NOT all about depth progression. The jumps are due to the level of demand upon the diver necessitated by increasingly complex and critical protocols.

Here's how I perceive the TecRec program.

Intro To TEC / Tec Basics: Most agencies have this in some guise or another. A 'taster', nothing more. A 'Technical Diving DSD'. It's not a prerequisite for any further training - so can be discounted as part of the 'training stream'. I do think it can be very useful though - as it permits potential tech diving candidates to evaluate their actual skills against the requirements needed to be successful on technical courses. Weak core skills being the primary barrier faced by tech diving candidates on entry to training...

Tec40: Introduces candidates to technical mindset, methodology and equipment. Students learn critical techniques for diving with double tanks (back or side mount), including shut-downs and air-sharing (long hose). Equipment configuration, advanced buoyancy, situational awareness, trim and propulsion techniques. More detailed dive planning and gas management. Use of one deco cylinder (>50% O2) for conservatism only - no accelerated deco (no reliance on deco gas for safe completion of dives). Max 10 minutes total deco. Dives to a max of 130ft/40m - same as max recreational depths.

In a nutshell: A comprehensive introduction to the principles, techniques and equipment of technical diving. Reasonable limitations associated with the qualification serve to ensure a high degree of diver safety during the period when they are still adapting to new equipment and protocols. i.e. the dives are kept 'forgiving' in the assumption that a novice technical diver is more prone to error. It also permits divers to do what a lot of recreational divers want to do... safely extend their time limits within recreational depth ranges for more meaningful bottom-times... without the risks and demands associated with high deco obligations/extended ceilings and very rich O2 mixtures.

Tec45: More detailed training on decompression procedures and the use of a single deco gas to 100%. Precision gas planning to encompass accelerated decompression. Depth limit is 45m/150ft... so only a marginal increase in depth beyond recreational limits. Candidates are limited to a single deco gas - thus minimizing the task loading and error potential of using multiple deco cylinders of varied O2%. Considerable reinforcement of core technical diving protocols, procedures and drills - to ensure a higher degree of diver competence.

In a nutshell: The ability to conduct formal technical dives, encompassing accelerated deco within moderate depth ranges. Divers are building competence and experience, which is reflected in the use of richer (>100% O2) deco mixes and more aggressive, less forgiving deco obligations. This is balanced against the simplicity of using only one deco mix, to reduce the chance of human error in gas switches leading to increased toxicity risks.

Tec50: Another slight graduation in depth (50m/165ft), but the primary addition is the use of 2+ deco mixes. The use of rich & lean deco gas dramatically increases the risk of a toxicity accident - as diver error in gas switching protocols could be fatal. No limits on deco obligation, permitting very extended bottom times within the depth limits. Again, considerable further reinforcement of core technical diving protocols, procedures and drills - to ensure a higher degree of diver competence. Divers are expected to have accumulated a robust level of core skills, situational awareness, equipment and procedural familiarity before reaching this stage.

In a nutshell: Multi-deco gas diving with tangible risk of oxygen toxicity, whilst faced with amplified task loading, precision dive planning and plan following... and the need to retain a high degree of situational awareness at all times. Benefits are substantially reduced deco times and greater flexibility with dive planning.

I'd hazard a guess that most Tec45 divers don't push the associated depth limits of their qualifications. This is probably even truer of Tec50 divers, especially in cold-water or overhead environments. There are values to progressive training beyond progressive depth...

For me 150' is deeper than I want to go on air. I want the AN/DP for extended bottom time.

As stated, the progression in the TecRec system is not focused on depth. You seem to have assumed that...

Do your really believe a newly certified TEC45 diver is better suited to lead a dive to 150' more than a TDI AN/DP (I think the correct answer is "hell no, neither")

I made it clear earlier in the thread... I don't believe a plastic card has any bearing whatsoever upon a diver's relative 'suited-ness' to complete any dive. A good technical instructor (ir)regardless of agency will develop the skills, mindset and competency needed for a diver to undertake safe dives within a limit suitable for that individual. Such limits encompass more than just 'depth'... in technical diving it is the ability to perform the dive-dictated protocols, equipment and skills that define a diver's limits.

If you're trying to turn this into an 'agency vs agency' argument, then you're looking at this entirely the wrong way...

...and for the record, I am trying to explain, not defend, the PADI/TecRec system. A glance at my sig block (below) will indicate that I have a pretty open-mind when it comes to agencies. (and yes, I have TDI qualifications too...)
 
I would go with TDI for advanced nitrox/deco procedures as you will be certified for up to 100% O2. Beyond that, PADI tech courses are more grueling in terms of academics. That can be viewed as a good thing or bad thing depending on your strengths & weaknesses...

PADI Tec 45 also certifies 100% O2 use
 
From what I can make out:

Course
Depth
O2%
No. Deco Gasses
Deco Limit
Tec40
40m
50
1
10min (not accelerated)
Tec45
45m
100
1
None
Tec50
50m
100
2+
None





TDI AN
40m
100
1
No-Deco
TDI DP
45m
100
1
?
TDI ER
55m
100
2
None
 
Tec45...the equivalent to DP, provides >100%O2...

How does one blend greater than 100% O2

:d
 


---------- Post added March 10th, 2013 at 04:51 PM ----------

How does one blend greater than 100% O2

:d

Carefully :D :D

I went the TDI route as it has the great benefit of simplicity.

AN/DP is essentially one course and most everyone does the 2 together. Card(s) are good for 150 feet.No limits on O2%,number of deco tanks or length of deco
(I believe AN as a standalone course is required for rebreathers that use O2 Dil,but don't quote me on that)

Next is Normoxic Trimix. Depth limit 200 feet. No hypoxic mixes (<18% O2)

Get the cards then get the experience,gradually build up to bigger and more challenging dives.
 
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