Trips when divers aren’t ready/equipped for them

[Marie13]

Running questionables past the captain also saves the trouble of someone turning up for the trip and not being allowed to dive. That would be a hot mess.

 

[Marie13]

Not true of most warm water vacation divers I’ve encountered (myself included). We don’t all rely on DM’s and, in many cases, there are no DM’s. There is also nothing wrong with going to 130 ft on an AL80 if you are a responsible diver - your NDL will be an issue long before your AL80.

I must just have the misfortune of talking with the stupid ones. And I mean really stupid.

 

[Joneill]

I must just have the misfortune of talking with the stupid ones. And I mean really stupid.

It seems that is the case!

 

[Cert1967]

So... not so over the top on liability then, is it? Why else would you bother with that stuff?

@Joneill

Because it is both a reasonable and prudent action. Liability Realease - you are asking no more than the dive boat is. Insurance for unforseen risk - personal choice, but for me I like my 'stuff' and choose to offload risk to a third-party. A bother - hardly. I have cap policies and the release is but a simple signature. No bother, little time, minimal effort, and lots of risk off-loaded.​

You miss the point. As the organizer, once she goes past the captain for vetting the competency of the divers, she opens herself up to additional possible liabilities. You don't have to ever worry about the reasonable divers suing you: only the unreasonable survivors. Me? I don't take any money for our Invasions, Surges or Spree4Alls, and I let the people taking the money do all the vetting of who's qualified or not to dive.

@The Chairman

Pete, I recommend you review the scope of your liability exposure with your attorney. If there were to be an incident on a SB event there is positive probability that you will be invited to the party on an individual basis. As to the event - they do the vetting and you do the marketing - both as SB and as an indiviudal, right? I wouldn't bet my 50 acres on not being a party. But I might be wrong, you never know about risk exposure and litigation. Why not offload the potential liability? I suspect that SB has liablity insurance and that you have some individual coverage from either that policy or on an indiviudal basis? I recall that you had a dust-up with a disgruntled review on SB? You won, but what were the costs?​

I ask again - where is the relevant case law to support your conclusions? If you have it, please provide the case information. While your opinions may be grounded in strong personal rationalization, this isn't relevant to litigation and far from a defense. Just the survivors? I'd bet the boat/owner/pro would invite you to the party - their insurance company would likely drive the decision - everyone in the pool.

The SB events? My guess is somewhere in the signup process there is a release from SB? Maybe not, but in your position, I'd require one. And I would draft it on both a corporate and individual basis. Florida, as the venue, looks good to me.

The cost of litigation is staggering for individuals who have not had the pleasure of being involved with a modestly complex lawsuit. A scuba death and you are an individual defendant - the potential exposure alone is likely to overwhelm an individual's financial capacity. The upfront costs would no doubt exceed the financial resources of many, if not most diver/organizers. BK as a defense? Sure, but that would carry a cost.

When the process server arrives at the door with the summons and complaint the reality of inadequate risk mitigation is all too apparent.

 

[Joneill]

@Joneill

Because it is both a reasonable and prudent action. Liability Realease - you are asking no more than the dive boat is. Insurance for unforseen risk - personal choice, but for me I like my 'stuff' and choose to offload risk to a third-party. A bother - hardly. I have cap policies and the release is but a simple signature. No bother, little time, minimal effort, and lots of risk off-loaded.​

@The Chairman

Pete, I recommend you review the scope of your liability exposure with your attorney. If there were to be an incident on a SB event there is positive probability that you will be invited to the party on an individual basis. As to the event - they do the vetting and you do the marketing - both as SB and as an indiviudal, right? I wouldn't bet my 50 acres on not being a party. But I might be wrong, you never know about risk exposure and litigation. Why not offload the potential liability? I suspect that SB has liablity insurance and that you have some individual coverage from either that policy or on an indiviudal basis? I recall that you had a dust-up with a disgruntled review on SB? You won, but what were the costs?​

I ask again - where is the relevant case law to support your conclusions? If you have it, please provide the case information. While your opinions may be grounded in strong personal rationalization, this isn't relevant to litigation and far from a defense. Just the survivors? I'd bet the boat/owner/pro would invite you to the party - their insurance company would likely drive the decision - everyone in the pool.

The SB events? My guess is somewhere in the signup process there is a release from SB? Maybe not, but in your position, I'd require one. And I would draft it on both a corporate and individual basis. Florida, as the venue, looks good to me.

The cost of litigation is staggering for individuals who have not had the pleasure of being involved with a modestly complex lawsuit. A scuba death and you are an individual defendant - the potential exposure alone is likely to overwhelm an individual's financial capacity. The upfront costs would no doubt exceed the financial resources of many, if not most diver/organizers. BK as a defense? Sure, but that would carry a cost.

When the process server arrives at the door with the summons and complaint the reality of inadequate risk mitigation is all too apparent.

Not sure I get you - you gave someone "grief" as being too concerned about liabilityfor organizing a dive and setting standards on who was suitably trained/prepared - but you seem to be also concerned and highlighting similar concerns???

 

[Marie13]

Well, one of the questionables is no longer interested in the trip. Emailed me earlier with some questions. I provided the captain’s email and suggested they contact him, asking if he thought this was an appropriate trip for them. I don’t know if they actually contacted the captain, but suddenly they’re no longer interested. One problem child gone.

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, I recommend you review the scope

You can never eliminate risks. I only use advertisers and we do have a release. Sure, I can be sued for anything, who can't?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

For many decades divers went to 130 feet, the recreational limit for open water divers on a single tank, sometimes a 72 cu ft tank. If I were diving a wreck at 130' I would like to have doubles for more bottom time, but since this is a no deco trip I would choose a single tank. There are a lot more divers with tons of experience diving to 130' on a single tank than there are side mount or back mount doubles divers, especially for no deco diving.

It's Marie's charter and she can make up any rules she wants, but to arbitrarily say that anyone diving to 130' with a single tank is ill equipped is wrong. I would take my single 130 cu ft tank and go on the next boat.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Why don’t you discuss it with the captain. You two figure out a set of rules for your charter that works for him and makes you happy.
Present it to the group and those that don’t conform don’t go, simple as that. I wouldn’t waste any more time on them.
It doesn’t matter what people here are saying about depths with single tanks blah blah blah, liability and lawsuits blah blah blah, and all the other comments blah blah blah. It’s not their charter it’s yours. Run it the way you see fit.

 

[Saniflush]

Bottom line is in this case it will be your pool so your rules apply. If folks can't handle that, then they are welcome to put their own trip together.