We don't need no education....

[marinediva]

As I stated, I was having problems downloading the PDF
the following is an extract re certified divers

1.3.3D Certificated divers – in water supervision
Following the assessment of the divers (refer to section 1.3.4D), if the dive site
assessment (refer to section 1.3.3A) reveals the dive site conditions are outside the
qualifications and experience of the diver, then in water supervision by a dive
instructor/ dive supervisor should be provided.

1.3.4C Entry-level certificate divers
Entry-level certificate divers should be trained through documented training
procedures which, in principle, comply with Australian Standard 4005.1 - 2000
Training and certification of recreational divers Part 1: Minimum entry level
scuba diving. A diver should not be awarded a certificate to dive unless he or she
has successfully completed this training with a recreational scuba or dive training
organisation.

1.3.4D Certificated divers
(Note: this section should be read in conjunction with sections 1.3.3D and 1.3.2D)
The employer/self-employed person should ensure the dive supervisor assesses the
competence of each diver prior to diving.
Factors taken into account should include:
(a) the recency of the diver’s recreational certificate and of the last dive
(b) the diving experience, including experience in relevant environmental
conditions, of the diver since the certificate was gained, for example, as
contained in log books
(c) the diver’s current medical fitness to dive.

If there are doubts as to the competence of the diver to complete a particular dive, a
dive supervisor or dive instructor should accompany the diver on that dive or assess
the diver during an assessment dive.

Certificated divers should be advised of the following:
(a) boundaries of the dive site
(b) environmental conditions and marine life at the dive site, for example, depth,
terrain, currents, visibility and behaviour of marine animals likely to be
encountered
(c) health and safety issues relating to the vessel, for example entry and exit
points
(d) health and safety issues relating to dive site entry such as a beach, jetty,
pontoon, river bank
(e) location and roles of supervisory staff, for example, dive instructors, dive
supervisors, and lookouts
(f) to regularly monitor air levels in air cylinders and the minimum air content
required for safe return to the surface. This advice would need to take into
account the depth of the dive and exertion levels, for example, when diving
against a current
(g) to dive in dive buddy teams
(h) not to dive to depths greater than that to which they have been trained or have
experience. (As recreational diving workers should not be required to dive
beyond 40 metres, certificated divers should be advised that if they get into
difficulty beyond this depth, their rescue may put a recreational diving worker
at unacceptable risk)

1.3.9D Certificated divers
The employer/self-employed person should advise certificated divers they should not
dive in excess of the depth to which they have been trained or have experience to.
These divers should be advised that if they get into difficulty beyond 40 metres, a
recreational diving worker may not be able to come to their assistance, that is, dive
beyond 40 metres.

Hope that is more clear......finally got the downloads working.
Please note, I did not write this......simply saying if you don't have the cert, expect to be denied the dive, or to be part of a group under supervision at the max.

 

[AfterDark]

But saying education is not needed or warranted is bloody mindedness.

Who in this thread besides you in this quote said education is not needed or warranted?
Not I, not the OP. Please quote the bloke that stated that for me. My point is that I am trained, formally trained and with years of experience.
I repeated at least twice that my 1st and only course was a 12 week course that covered how to scuba dive. Once a week for 12 weeks we'd spent 4 hours learning to dive. This was divided up between classroom and pool. The 1st few weeks were all classroom, 4 hours learning equipment, terminolgy, medical aspects of diving, gas laws, decompression, water currents, search and rescue, first aid as it related to diving accidents..... As the course progressed the class time got less and the pool time increased as we learned and then honed our skills. The class work eventually went into review mode to make sure we retained what we learned in the classroom. We made 4 OW dives in the cold often murky waters of New England, a day dive a wreck dive a night dive and a deep dive. We were then certified as scuba divers. If that's not formal training then please enlighten me as to what is.

I'm more than willing to sign any number of liability releases and get my wife to sign them as well stating that she wouldn't sue if something happens to me. (She'd probably get the boat crew candy) A checkout dive? I love to dive lets go!
I wouldn't ask anyone to take my word for my skills, as I said in another thread I just don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for cards to spent hundreds of dollars on a boat. I want to dive in freedom and peace.

 

[marinediva]

I have no doubt that the old school diver has much to teach the industry and individuals,
the experience level of some I am sure would be awesome. But saying education is not needed or warranted is bloody mindedness.

Who in this thread besides you in this quote said education is not needed or warranted?

The Title of this thread is WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION
is it not.


I feel I have I made myself very clear on my position of 'old school divers', incase I need to repeat myself, I actually have upmost respect for them. If I ever met you I am sure you would become aware of that very quickly.

The fact is when I was a young girl in the late 60's I used to watch the divers on the Tweed River
in Nth NSW, my father actually tells a story of how I would bother the crap out of them every time I saw them, whilst fishing with him. He also tells the story of me declaring I was going to do that one day and even having the audacity to ask them to let me try their gear and later following them with my snorkel and mask.

Some people need those Agency courses and gain a lot from them. As stated by many others it all depends on how they are taught, as to how much knowledge and skill a student gains.

I have never put down the skills or education level of an older diver, and find no reason to at all,
like I said, I actually think guys like yourself have a lot to offer the industry.

 

[AfterDark]

That sounds just like me when I was a kid watching Sea Hunt and telling my parents I was going to do that someday, and whenever I saw a diver I'd bug that poor guy until my Dad stopped me or he ran into the water!

The title of the thread is just a play on words from an old Pink Floyd song. You shouldn't take it too literally, and it was about a specific question someone had in another thread about doing a particular type of diving they had been doing a long time. Someone suggested a course in that type of diving which I thought was a bit much to get the answer to one question about something the poster had been doing right along and I said so. Some else pickup on my comment and started this thread. Fun thread huh?

 

[marinediva]

That particular post and my use of the word warranted was in regards to a post about a guy who built a submarine. My point in that post was simply that everyone is different and have different ways of learning. Just as we are all motivated in different ways.

I can see we actually are not that different to each other at all. I believe the majority of posters here are just as passionate about what they do and how they do it. Whilst other girls had posters of David Cassidy on their wall I had pictures of Ben Cropp and Ron and Val Taylor.

Fun, hhmmmm sure, fun to me is learning how to spear a flathead with a steak knife at the tender age of seven. Took two summers to get the hang of it.

 

[AfterDark]

Here's how I see it.

There was a millenia of men (and women) who just did stuff. Climb Mount Everest.. ok, Sail around the world.. ok, Land on Normandy.. ok. These people had what used to be called moxie. They also put their children through school and then university, something denied to many of them because they were too busy doing something. The University generation then grew up and began to believe in their own BS. That "formal education" was what enabled them to do something. It always comes as a great shock (and threat) when someone just goes out and does something without the formal education.

... but... you can't do that... your not ... qualified.

I just watched a show about a guy in Copenhagen that built the worlds largest civilian submarine... and he wasn't even an engineer. He just loves subs.
Home

If you want to know what a non certified guy can do read some of this:

My friend built the world's largest homegrown submarine - The Something Awful Forums

marinediva, I did some search a recovery Here's the post you mentioned page 12 #119. What I get out of this post is that the poster is saying we've swung full tilt in the other direction, that nothing is possible to do correctly or safely without formal education.

 

[marinediva]

LOL More than willing to give you your cert for the effort.
I understand what you are saying but how I read this is having a go at people who choose Formal education. well there you go, reading the same text and each reads something different.
From what I have read all along it is about the certs, and the having to pay for them etc.
Tell you what AD, if you are ever in Aust, look me up, I am more than willing to dive the courses with you for free. You just pay for the certification. In return all I ask is lessons on how to dive in a dry suit, since I have never done it and am waiting now for next winter before I do the course. Off course if the H20 does not heat up soon I may be forced to do it sooner than later.
The 7m and 5m suits with hoods are killing me.

 

[AfterDark]

marinediva, Thanks for your offer. I've always wanted to go down under. I know a dive buddy from long ago who works/dives for your version of Dept of the enviroment she lives in Canberra? ( I can't spell worth a damn). As I said in a earlier post I wish only to dive in peace and freedom. After reading your posts on how involved the nanny state is there
thanks but no thanks. What you live with there is just what I'm railing against! Your of course joking about the dry suit. Dry suits are great if I hadn't tore my rotator cuff I'd be diving mine now.

 

[mathauck0814]

**High-jack**
Diving in NSW is far less restrictive than diving in Queensland (and in my humble opinion, far more unique as well). I had the good fortune of spending a few months in Oz this year and had a very positive experience with the dive operations in and around Sydney and Melbourne. Highly worthwhile.
**End of High-jack**

 

[Slonda828]

Who of us would allow a surgeon to operate on our loved ones or ourselves just because he had read some books and practiced on some poor wretched animals?
I certainly would like to know that the surgeon has at least been to some kind of school, and hopefully a good one, and also passed some sort of exam.

You are a diving instructor, not a surgeon. In America, you can spend 5 days in a class and become a dive instructor once you have taken an exam. Becoming a surgeon takes 8 years of medical training minimum. I think there is a marked difference. You can read a book and learn how to dive, I did it for 6 years before I took my first certification class. I knew more than the guy who certified me to dive. Hobbies are like that sometimes. I would be careful about artificially inflating your own importance. Also, mentioning Australian laws is not applicable for everyone, so putting them in here at length if you are trying to do anything other than argue with Thalassamania is of limited value. I do agree that divers need education, but education does not always mean sitting in a classroom.