We might stop diving

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There is no data that tells us what the incremental risk of diving is. I can find my risk of a heart attack based on may age (5.2% over the next 10 years) but I cannot find the incremental risk of suffering death from the 5% chance because I am underwater (I suspect it is nearly 100%). And I cannot find the incremental risk of having a heart attack or other medical events due to the various challenges of the sport.
About 5 micromorts per dive. That's the average incremental risk of diving. (Roughly, I imagine.)

When I first started having sex I thought it was the most profound experience life offered. Then I got to college, and I had a lot of it, with a lot of different people, and, well, let's just say it lost some profundity. I never stopped enjoying it though.

The same with diving. When I first started diving it was amazing. Then it got a little boring, so I found more exotic destinations (I could continue the sex analogy, but I'll leave it to you.:wink:) My enthusiasm waxed and waned, but I always enjoyed it.

I can live life quite fully without diving. There is sex, there is music, there are friends and family. If you think you might be jeopardizing the other stuff, quit diving.
 
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I hear music when I'm diving and often when I think of diving. Come to think of it, I often think of sex when diving and diving during sex . . . Or is it that I think of . . .erm, nevermind.
 
Speaking of music...
What I personally think/feel on this subject, OneRepublic has managed to sum up in one short sentence:

"Everything That Kills Me Makes Me Feel Alive" :)
 
We might stop diving.

I’m not sure why I am writing this. But if you want to comment, please read it through, and be respectful.

We love diving! Yet the death of Quero really bothers me. I am her age. I “talked” with her on SB! Maybe she made some mistakes, did some things she shouldn’t have – yet who among us has not made mistakes? And it’s not just her – others have died – repeat: DIED, as in IT’S OVER – while diving. There was a Russian couple – experienced divers – both of whom died at Pt. Lobos a few months ago. I love diving! But I’m not ready to die, and there are plenty of great things to do in this world besides dive. (Like those things you do with dive buddies after you come out. Like hiking. Like observing wildlife – nature in any form. Like music. Like family. …. )

We might at least stop cold water diving. I do love it, though. I really enjoyed the dives I had recently with dive buddy Kim. Those were great days! Also quite a few with my wife, and the experiences have brought us closer together. That’s a plus. And being a diver has given me more motivation to stay in shape – that’s another big plus.

We talked about it. New rule: we need to have at least 10 feet visibility for all our dives. Period. We’re planning to at least take the GUE Primer course first, then decide. Maybe we’ll feel more comfortable then. But plenty of experienced divers have died – repeat: DIED!

Yeah, it could be that those deaths, maybe even Quero’s, were due to medical issues. But a medical issue on land is one thing – and a medical issue under 50 feet of water – that’s entirely different. Or maybe they were due to dive events that they couldn’t handle. We have certainly had our share of them (I have written about several on these boards). So when does one get enough experience that dive events don’t happen any more? Realistically, never – though their frequency should go down. Yet experienced divers still succumb, as we can see on SB every week.

The dive industry shares some of the blame. The industry as a whole continues to claim it’s a safe sport. But really, we do not know how safe diving is – in part because we don’t know how many dives have been taken. Not even that basic information is available. (I wonder why? The cynical part of me has an answer…) At a minimum, LDS’s could count the number of fills as a pretty close approximation of the number of dives. Also, it is clear to me that the vast majority of dive operators operate in a “You should be OK” mode – no significant check on skills required for a dive. Too often, there is not realistic information about the skills required for a dive from the operator. We have certainly fell victim to this mentality on more than one occasion.

There is no data that tells us what the incremental risk of diving is. I can find my risk of a heart attack based on may age (5.2% over the next 10 years) but I cannot find the incremental risk of suffering death from the 5% chance because I am underwater (I suspect it is nearly 100%). And I cannot find the incremental risk of having a heart attack or other medical events due to the various challenges of the sport.

And, as has been well-documented on these boards, the certification requirements are in drastic need of repair. Good courses depend too much on the instructor, and the certifications awarded do not relate to the skills required for the dives offered by the industry (case in point: AOW). And usually, no one fails a cert course (except Fundies as far as I know). I am a teacher myself – I know what happens when you have a system where no one fails!

Maybe we’re just not the type of people for diving. We sure tried – we bought nearly all of our own equipment. We took several training courses. We did a number of pool dives to develop our skills. I’m OK with mechanical things, but it’s not my favorite thing to be doing in my free time. Emily is much less interested in taking care of the equipment. And physically, we’re OK, but neither of us is really the athlete type. Meaning that maybe we have more “events” than the average “good diver” simply because our mind-body coordination isn’t anything special (one way or the other). We are probably more prone to panic than the average “good diver”. Age plays into that, too. We’re not 35 any more. I am being honest about my limitations.

Maybe, instead of diving, I’ll take up the euphonium. I love diving! I would miss it. But for how long?

These are my thoughts. If you reply, please be respectful. There are a lot of insults flying about on SB – one reason I don’t post much any more.

Thanks for reading this far.

- Bill

Yes, you should stop diving - no question.

I do not agree that the dive industry shares any blame, there are plenty of agencies that provide quality training

One of the great things about the diving industry is that's it pretty much unregulated, lets keep it that way.

Diving is not physically demanding and does not require athletic skills. I dive with safe, proficient divers that are pretty old and not exactly marathon runners.

Diving is not complicated, especially at recreational depths, but it will kill you if you don't understand and practice the basic concepts like being properly weighted, buddy protocol and gas planning. Based on some of your old post I agree with you - you and your wife are just not the type of people for diving.
 
I don't think the industry is to blame but sometimes I don't think the industry portrays diving accurately. Too much of the time it is portrayed like an amusement ride, maybe sort of the way zip lines are. Come on over to the zip line attraction, let us put you in a harness and send you for a fun ride, every detail has been worked out for you already, it's safe, nothing can go wrong. Sure you need to get certified first but that can be arranged in just two short weekends then you are good to go. Scuba is different. It demands that you actively participate. You need to understand your equipment and actively maintain it. You need to be able to plan dives and understand how to make them safe. And conditions are variable, one dive is any easy calm dive, the next dive or sometimes even later in the same dive current develops, the visability gets worse and conditions are much tougher. You need to be able to find your way around underwater and back to safety. Diving takes commitment, practice, regularity. Done right it becomes a commitment of time and money. It's generally not something to do now and then. Maybe tropical diving led by a DM can be easy and not demanding. Maybe, until you get a DM that isn't trained well, or isn't paying attention to you like you thought they would, or conditions are different than you expected, or you simply forget to look at your watch and gauge enough. And even with lots of commitment and diving experience you need to continually force yourself to do all the little things, all the safety checks as if you were still a beginner or sure enough one will come back to bite you. Diving can be very rewarding. I once heard a diver express so very well how he thought diving was a priviledge to be able to enter and explore the underwater world, a whole different world than the one we usually live in. I really enjoy diving but I never try to talk anyone into it. It's not like recommending a good movie. You can't just sit back and enjoy it. Luckily as great as diving is there are lots of activities that are fun and rewarding also. I always figure that if for some reason I needed to stop diving then I would hike more, or bicycle, or.......
 
Great advice here... like so many places on SB. Like many here I have been impacted by Quero's death. I was also impacted by her love of the ocean, her passion for life and for living it to the fullest. We all have to make our own choices about how we will react to this tragedy. Does that mean giving up diving for you? If that is your choice I hope you can replace it with something else that fills the gap.. I wish you joy and safety in your pursuit. If you choose to continue diving.. learn from the lessons Quero is still teaching us!

Either way you have had the privileged to enjoy a wondrous environment that so few get to see in person. It is not OUR environment we are only visitors there. We must never forget that never become complacent but never lose sight of the magic!
 
I would wonder about continuing to dive as well. You blame the industry for having a problem "with safety", but after all the training you have had, all the courses all the reading and supposedly being a well educated person, you ask the question IF a BC can be orally inflated underwater ....

I have absolutely no idea how you could get this far with a total lack of understanding of one of the most basic safety issues of scuba diving... I have a hard time blaming this on "the industry".. it is in the basic PADI manual right?

OIC. As well as that, I envision that it could be useful if, for some reason, I had to orally inflate. For example, OOA (one hopes not, but it could happen), failure of the inflator hose, or detached inflator hose and you didn't notice it (happened to me) or could not get it back on.

Is it possible to orally inflate at depth?

- Bill
 
I would wonder about continuing to dive as well. You blame the industry for having a problem "with safety", but after all the training you have had, all the courses all the reading and supposedly being a well educated person, you ask the question IF a BC can be orally inflated underwater ....

I have absolutely no idea how you could get this far with a total lack of understanding of one of the most basic safety issues of scuba diving... I have a hard time blaming this on "the industry".. it is in the basic PADI manual right?

What I would blame the industry for is making it so easy for someone to become an instructor ... I can't even begin to relate all the seriously bad advice I've heard instructors giving students ... much of it repeated right here on ScubaBoard.

Pertinent to the concept of orally inflating a BCD at depth, I was once told by an instructor to "never take your regulator out of your mouth underwater unless it's an emergency" ... to this day it remains in my Top 10 list of dumbass things I've heard instructors say. Makes me wonder how this person made it through their instructor evaluation ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Is demonstrating lost reg recovery considered an emergency? :p
 
I would wonder about continuing to dive as well. You blame the industry for having a problem "with safety", but after all the training you have had, all the courses all the reading and supposedly being a well educated person, you ask the question IF a BC can be orally inflated underwater ....

I have absolutely no idea how you could get this far with a total lack of understanding of one of the most basic safety issues of scuba diving... I have a hard time blaming this on "the industry".. it is in the basic PADI manual right?

I don't have access to a PADI manual. Is it actually in there? If it's not on the punch list of required skills a lot of places won't teach it.

---------- Post added October 20th, 2013 at 09:34 AM ----------

Pertinent to the concept of orally inflating a BCD at depth, I was once told by an instructor to "never take your regulator out of your mouth underwater unless it's an emergency"

So you should leave your reg in, until you have an emergency, then it's OK to spit it out? Is that when you're supposed to rip your mask off too? :cool:

That's wrong on so many levels that my brain hurts right now. I have to go get some coffee.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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