Whaling thread gone

[mislav]

To me - whaling is wrong.

And it's not so much of my responsibility to prove that it is. The ones that want to commit any act of taking a life should be able to provide justification for doing it.

Some cultures have a tradition of whaling. So what? Cultures change and develop. If they want to stick with their tradition of whaling then do it the traditional way. Lose all the modern technology in the process. How traditional is that? And it does affect the catch numbers greatly.

Why would you need to hunt down a thousand of whales in the name of science? Are they making them participate in an opinion poll of some sort? A market research and analysis? What?

 

[Kim]

Some cultures have a tradition of whaling. So what? Cultures change and develop. If they want to stick with their tradition of whaling then do it the traditional way. Lose all the modern technology in the process. How traditional is that? And it does affect the catch numbers greatly.

I don't quite understand this point of view. Are you suggesting that we should also abandon modern farming techniques and go back to hunter/gatherer practices because that would be more traditional? I do agree with you though, if we did it would sure cut down on the queues of animals waiting forlornly outside the slaughter houses for their turn. On the other hand if I was a whale I would probably prefer the mostly instant death of an explosive harpoon in my brain than the long drawn out suffering of being pierced by spear like harpoons and kept on the surface with floats so I couldn't dive while my hunters waited for me to die. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[mislav]

It's just that if some bad practice gets defended and glorified because it's "the tradition" than do it the traditional way. Make it hard, make it look silly and outdated and keep it minimal. Much like bull fighting in Spain, which is another thing I oppose.

The way the whaling's been done today is as if matadors would use machine guns to fight bulls. Of course, for scientific purposes.

 

[Kim]

It's just that if some bad practice gets defended and glorified because it's "the tradition" than do it the traditional way. Make it hard, make it look silly and outdated and keep it minimal. Much like bull fighting in Spain, which is another thing I oppose.

The way the whaling's been done today is as if matadors would use machine guns to fight bulls. Of course, for scientific purposes.

I can see your point even if I don't agree. Personally I think that there is a difference between killing for sport, which I don't like, and killing for food. It's also easier to be against something if you weren't brought up doing it. For the whaling nations eating whale is just something completely natural. I think that they don't see it as a 'bad practice' - just food - much like others do when it comes to other animals. To them I think that making these differentiations between eating this animal but not that one makes no sense - and it doesn't much to me either.

 

[mislav]

To them I think that making these differentiations between eating this animal but not that one makes no sense - and it doesn't much to me either.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

 

[Kim]

The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Ah....Lao-Tzu! Don't you just love 'Tao te Ching'!!!!

There's not a lot the Chinese don't eat though.......

Actually, a more correct translation would be:
"Even the longest journey must begin where you stand"

 

[mislav]

I knew you'd like it.

 

[Kim]

I knew you'd like it.

My first wife gave me a copy of "Tao te Ching" 32 years ago. She also gave me a 'companion' volume - "Inner Chapters" by Chuang-Tsu. Along with my "I-Ching", I have carried them my whole life. I have a huge respect for the thought of Tao.

 

[H2Andy]

Additionally, my parochial school upbringing suggests speaking to a lady in
a mannered tone.

i don't condescend to people and treat them like "a lady" whatever that means.

i treat people like people, male or female. don't make no difference to me.

(although i must say i try to save my cruder jokes for my male friends, since
my women friends don't really enjoy that sort of thing)

at any rate, you guys can't seem to have an argument with anyone without
making personal comments. it all comes down (to you) to calling people names
in one way or another.

Andy, so sorry I got you mixed up with Kim.

well, i say this with no malice, you don't seem to read posts too well before
responding. remember that time you jumped all over me for gun control
before you realized you AGREED with me?

likewise, your comments on what I said on the gun thread show me that you
really didn't read that thread closely. i suggested she take a class before
making a decision, and i never suggested she buy a Glock. in fact, i suggested
she not get an automatic but instead a simple revolver, for easier of maintenance
and more reliability.

please do read what i write before attacking me for some imaginary thing i
never said?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

other than that, i have no ill will towards anybody. people are welcome to
disagree with me. it does not threaten me personally. it's not a personal
thing. reasonable, well-meaning people will disagree with each other; it's just
a fact of life.

i would like to share opinions and points of view, however, without
resorting to debasing the other person or attacking them at a personal level.

that's all

 

[H2Andy]

To me - whaling is wrong.

see.. i don't see the world as "right" or "wrong." somethings in one context
can be "right," but change the context and they are "wrong." "right" and
"wrong" are value judgments, and will change from culture to culture.

how about trying to answer these questions:

1. is the minke whale endangered? -- No. they were never extensively hunted;
last century, less than 100,000 minke were harvested.

2. how many of them are there at present? low of 300,000 high of 900,000,
let's agree on a conservative 600,000

3. will hunting approximately 2,000 minke whales affect a 600,000 population?
not likely. (I am counting the quota for Japan, Norway, and Iceland)

we could argue about 3 some more, but i haven't seen any evidence that 2,000
individuals out of 600,000 will make a difference.


i think we should not cause whale species to become endangered and threatened.

i don't think a limited amount of hunting minke will have this effect.

thus, i believe a limited amount of hunting minke is not damaging to the minke
and should be ok