Whaling thread gone

[KOMPRESSOR]

California is a great state. We have one of the biggest economic engines in the world, making many countries pale in comparison. So much innovation and technology has come out of this state. We are the first to get problems and the first to solve them! California culture is every bit as legitimate as any body else's, maybe more because we change and adapt to the changes in this world faster than anyone.

And then they elected Schwartzenegger...

SO, I refuse to feel guilty about being Californian, American, or emphatically asking the same people that are all upset about somebody writing on coral but fine with putting majestic mammals through a slaughter machine to stop.

No, no... It's done by hand!

Oh, I almost forgot why I was posting, before I got on this rant that has been eating on me. I saw on the news two days ago where this Japanese whaler took a shot at a Greenpeace activist with his harpoon. That is so wrong even if you do not agree with anything Greenpeace does. These are people who have passionate convictions about protecting the environment. Maybe they are fanatics, but that should not excuse that whaler from almost harpooning a human being. Truly one more heartless act.

Are you lying about what you saw, or did you really not see it? From what I could tell from a videoclip the japs fired upon a whale. A Zodiac with maniacs speeded up and managed to get underneath the line as the whale dove. One of the Zodiac crewmember even jumped at the line to make sure the helicopter filmcamera would get some action. What do you say? What REALLY happened out there? I didn't see anyone firing a grenade at a human beeing.



As for the racist issue in here in general (Not you in any particular sense Catherine) I wonder why not anyone have brought up the misuse of the statement "Japan's Shame" in this case. I don't know about your history books, but in ours "Japan's Shame" is all about what the Japanese war machine did in China during the war. That was a lot about racism, and an imence tragedy which do not deserve to be dragged into the business of whaling. One could certainly argue that the original thread did misuse these words if you know what they are about, really!



Sincerely,

the whale eater.

 

[Cacia]

I have never argued your right to oppose whaling and have earler stated quite clearly that it was not your comments that I found offensive in the whaling thread.(http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1426304&postcount=170) Why you still seem to think that I am accusing you of being racist is quite beyond me!

As far as Japanese culture goes I can only say that in spite of being married to a Japanese lady and having lived here for 6 years, my understanding is still far from complete. I can say from personal observation though that it is changing very rapidly for a country so unaccustomed to such change. Outside influences due to satellite TV and the Internet, as well as far more people travelling outside of Japan, are very powerful forces. These changes will not happen overnight though and simply telling people that they should be ashamed of themselves and other such accusations won't make it happen any faster!

I have remained polite and civil in this entire conversation. Just because I am a moderator does not mean that I may not express my personal views on things. I'm sorry that you think it's OK to call me names and tell me I'm such a 'bad example'. Luckily there are many others though that actually appreciate the number of hours everyday that we mods contribute to the board in order to keep it a decent place where people such as yourself can express themselves.

Yes, I agree I was not polite. I usually am. I just find there to always be this undercurrent from you and Andy that you all are always correct and he seems latently hostile to me. I realize you are very intelligent and I think you need to be careful to allow others to feel welcome to present their opinions. I bet I am not alone in my opinion here. Still, I think you are probably a very kind person and I regret getting incited yesterday. Some of us are very emotional on this whaling issue. Mr. X presented some great links and I for one welcomed and enjoyed the original post also. If I were to read a post "America's shame: Park Avenue Fur..." I would not feel the need to say, "HEY everyone, don't make America feel bad!" Americans have to take it on the chin all the time. I do appreciate the mods. I just think your first responsibility is to make sure the tone welcomes other's points of view also. You just keep driving your point and I notice you all did not seem too upset about the human being that almost was harpooned quite intentionally by the Japanese whaler. I was only making the point that it seems odd to me to be "pissed" as you said about the poor little coral and not have much compassion left over for the person who was almost murdered. It just strikes me very...peculiar. What name did I call you?

 

[H2Andy]

from you and Andy that you all are always correct and he seems latently hostile to me.

i can assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. seriously, if someone
says something about you that you feel is inacurate, wouldn't you defend
yourself too?

it's not personal. i have nothing against you. please point to a post were
i have been mean or rude to you, and i will apologize, as that is not my
intent.

but you have misquoted me and ascribed words to me that i never said, so...

just trying to set the record straight

as to me always being correct, i do think about things a lot, and tend not
to talk on a subject unless i've done some looking into it, but i am certainly
open to better/more accurate views of the facts and their interpretation

i have nothing vested in my opinion. this minke whale discussion is not about
me or whether i am right or wrong. it's about the minke and people
hunting them.

 

[Cacia]

And then they elected Schwartzenegger...



No, no... It's done by hand!




Are you lying about what you saw, or did you really not see it? From what I could tell from a videoclip the japs fired upon a whale. A Zodiac with maniacs speeded up and managed to get underneath the line as the whale dove. One of the Zodiac crewmember even jumped at the line to make sure the helicopter filmcamera would get some action. What do you say? What REALLY happened out there? I didn't see anyone firing a grenade at a human beeing.





As for the racist issue in here in general (Not you in any particular sense Catherine) I wonder why not anyone have brought up the misuse of the statement "Japan's Shame" in this case. I don't know about your history books, but in ours "Japan's Shame" is all about what the Japanese war machine did in China during the war. That was a lot about racism, and an imence tragedy which do not deserve to be dragged into the business of whaling. One could certainly argue that the original thread did misuse these words if you know what they are about, really!



Sincerely,

the whale eater.

I was wondering when you were gonna show up,

I like Arnold. And for some bizarre reason, I like you too.

 

[Cacia]

i can assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. seriously, if someone
says something about you that you feel is inacurate, wouldn't you defend
yourself too?

it's not personal. i have nothing against you. please point to a post were
i have been mean or rude to you, and i will apologize, as that is not my
intent.

but you have misquoted me and ascribed words to me that i never said, so...

just trying to set the record straight

as to me always being correct, i do think about things a lot, and tend not
to talk on a subject unless i've done some looking into it, but i am certainly
open to better/more accurate views of the facts and their interpretation

i have nothing vested in my opinion. this minke whale discussion is not about
me or whether i am right or wrong. it's about the minke and people
hunting them.

okay, well I am sorry then. I did get the players mixed up for a minute. I do feel the American cultural point of view is expected to be apologetic at all times and other cultures are touted as so noble and seeped in lofty tradition. Most Americans do have a special relationship with whales and feel an obligation to protect them. One of my major gripes is that you all do not respect that sentiment. I only wish Kim could appreciate the legitimacy of my cultural perspective as well as his new home.

Oh, and "nothing vested in my opinion" is also setting you apart from people who care about it a lot. So...the people that really feel invested in this issue are naturally going to be more impassioned...

 

[H2Andy]

One of my major gripes is that you all do not respect that sentiment.

i am sorry if i came across this way, as this would piss me off too if the roles
were reversed.

i do respect your point of view on whales. i too believe that many species should
be protected if they are in danger of extinction.


however, as to this present discussion, I believe (a) that the minke
are not in danger of extinction and (b) that the limited hunting by Norway, Iceland, and
Japan, will not threaten the minke.

in terms of not wanting to kill whales b/c they are "majestic animals" or whatever,
i don't really see it that way. i think cows and pigs and pretty cool animals, and
yet i don't have a problem eating them. i eat venison. i eat rabbit. i eat any kind
of fish.

i just don't see where i have the moral ground to tell others not to eat "majestic
animals" when i eat quite a few animals myself.

Oh, and "nothing vested in my opinion" is also setting you apart from people who care about it a lot. So...the people that really feel invested in this issue are naturally going to be more impassioned...

"nothing vested in my opinon" doesn't mean i don't have anything vested
in the issue or have no emotional attachment.

i certainly care about this issue a great deal, which is why i have researched
and read as much as i can to have an educated opinion.

what i mean by "nothing vested in my opinion" is that if right now you can
show me facts that tell me i am wrong, i will gladly change my opinon
to reflect those facts. i will not cling to my opinion just because it's my
opinion.

in other words, my point is not to win this argument. my point is to share
knowledge and learn.

 

[Cacia]

yea, I should keep my mouth shut and stick to diving. Its hard sometimes.

 

[H2Andy]

???????

nO!!!

it's a lot of fun to bs about a bunch of things

 

[Cacia]

yea, thats why its hard. I did go a little nuts yesterday. At least Kompressor wasn't in my face about Arnold yesterday.

He does have a very good point about the term "Japan's Shame" In the historical context. I missed that angle somehow. He is pretty smart for a bully.

 

[Mr.X]

i don't condescend to people and treat them like "a lady" whatever that means.

i treat people like people, male or female. don't make no difference to me.

(although i must say i try to save my cruder jokes for my male friends, since
my women friends don't really enjoy that sort of thing)

at any rate, you guys can't seem to have an argument with anyone without
making personal comments. it all comes down (to you) to calling people names
in one way or another.

Tiresome. If you modify your jokes for a particular group of people you are treating them differently. This runs contrary to your ' egalitarian' statement above...even with a stated qualification.

Like a deep groove in a record your tactic of stating "personal attack' is getting stale. Your environmental position - obtuse. I know you will reply in kind. Nothing like a hard-wired reflex. Me - done with you.


Kompressor – just a quick note. “Jap” is considered a derogatory term. I know in Europe that this abbreviation is used on occasion, but in the US it’s considered hurtful. I know it’s a boo-boo. Like Catherine, I find a degree of eccentricity that makes you interesting.