What high def video equipment would you buy with a +/- $10K budget?

[In10se]

There are indeed trade-offs. Much depends on the intended use of the output.

The visual perspective you provided of the systems in use was very much needed here, as well as very inspiring. I have to say after looking on Vimeo.com that the differences between these smaller camcorders and the EX1 seems to be very dramatic.

Here are some comparison clips of the XR520 vs the SF10. I am wondering if the Sony was set up properly or as even well as the Cannon.

Full screen is the best way to comparatively view these clips.

[vimeo]3903041[/vimeo]​

The SF10 seems to edge out the XR520 in imaging quality in the following low light caparison as well. At the 10 second mark look at the brown lines on the banana and the red spots on the apple, and then again at the 15 second mark.

[vimeo]3920703[/vimeo]​

Then I moved on to the EX1 stuff. I can see why someone would invest the extra money for the EX1 system. I'm tempted.

[vimeo]3890238[/vimeo]​

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

Well it all depends on your camera experience and level of knowledge. I am the moderator for the Canon HF-S10/S100 channel on Vimeo. And have been doing camera research for the last two months before making the purchase of the Canon HF-S10. I can give you a few things to keep in mind.

If weight and size are a big concern for you, then yes you should be sticking to a consumer camera, such as the XR520V or the HF-S10. Now if you intend to shoot footage topside, for vacations, family outings, etc. You may just want to go with the Canon HF-S10. In auto mode, the Sony does have better low light capability, but at some cost. There has been notable noise levels with the Sony at low light. This is mainly due to no manual control for the gain. The Canon has manual control for gain, which in the right hands can match the Sony's low light capability without the noise level. It may seem like I am pushing the Canon, but I am simply pointing out the points that pushed me towards the Canon.

Another thing I should point out, is the Canon has a 24Mb/s bitrate, which I think the Sony is either 16Mb/s or 19 Mb/s (not 100% sure). The whole problem with HDD or flash based camera's in the past was the bitrate. HDV was 24MB/s, well Canon has solved that problem. One issue with both of these camera's is they are avchd which requires some major computing power to edit and render, versus the HDV format.

I feel the Canon has the slight edge. The reason for my opinion, in daylight Canon is the clear winner on quality. The total list of manual controls on the Canon wins over the Sony. The Sony does have better low light, when both units are in auto mode. I prefer the twin flash cards of the Canon.

I think the deciding factor could be with the housings also. Gates is making a housing for both camera's. But if Gates uses a joystick control for the Canon housing, this will allow for full access to the Canon controls. Which would allow you to have all manual controls and settings available under water. With the Sony you will have more options on housings, for example Light and Motion, Gates, Amphibico, etc. But were not going to know about the housings for at least another 1 - 2 months on both units. I know Light and Motion has a housing available for the Sony, I believe its ready. All other housings aren't available just yet.

The best thing to do is, is find a video shop in your area that carries both models, and go shoot some test footage with both. And see what you like. Take your time, look at as much video footage from both. Do your research read all the reviews. And then see what housings are available.

And don't discount some of the prosumer models either. Like the FX7, FX1, XH-A1, A1U, V1U. Even with a used EX-1 your going to be out of your budget. My final choices were down to the Sony FX-7, Sony V1U and the Canon HF-S10. I decided to stick with the Canon due to size and weight. And I also figured, I can always upgrade later to one of the prosumer models, and sell my Canon set-up or just keep it as a B camera. No matter what take your time, do your research, and no matter what your decision is, chances are you will be happy.

Good Luck! and let us know what you decided. Look forward to seeing some footage from you.
:cool2:

 

[DavidVik]

I went with the XR520V in a Light and Motion Bluefin with Fathom 90 lens, as the low light performance reviews favored the Sony. I previously used a VX2000 in an Amphibico housing, and the XR520V performs just as well as the VX2000 with lower noise, even though the VX2000 is a 3-chip camera. I think Sony's new chip is vastly improved over the previous ones (my VX2000 is 6 years old)

Overall I am very happy with the XR520V. I was able to manually white balance at ~100 feet (as long as the red filter was in place) The camera had difficulty white balancing without the internal red filter if you were deeper than ~20 feet. I feel the manual white balance is an essential control for this camera; I would not consider a housing for this camera that does not offer this feature. If you use the auto white balance you will shoot video that you don't want to watch!

My housing, lens, LED 1000 lights, and camera with accessories all fit in my carry-on with room to spare! This is a very travel friendly setup. If you are wanting broadcast quality shots, you need to spend 25K on an EX1 with a Gates housing. The XR520V will allow you to travel easily and produce very nice quality video that is certainly enjoyable to watch.

I have some sample footage on YouTube, shot with my L&M Bluefin/XR520V, and will post the link when I have 5 posts!

I have used both Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 (PC) or iMovie '09 (Mac) for editing. If you use a mac, iMovie '09 converts the files to .mov format that Final Cut will read.

 

[DavidVik]

Here is the YouTube link to my L&M Bluefin/XR520V footage:

YouTube - Sony XR520V with L&M Bluefin sample footage

And if I forgot to mention, this system came in right about 10K (Bluefin, Fathom 90 lens, ULCS arms/Stix floats, LED 1000 lights, and camera with ext. battery)

 

[ScubaDocER]

Here is the YouTube link to my L&M Bluefin/XR520V footage:

YouTube - Sony XR520V with L&M Bluefin sample footage

And if I forgot to mention, this system came in right about 10K (Bluefin, Fathom 90 lens, ULCS arms/Stix floats, LED 1000 lights, and camera with ext. battery)

That was a very nice video. The color was noticeable!! Especially the coral shots. Where were you when you shot it? I am leaning heavily towards getting the Blue Fin. I already have the Sony XR520V. Question. Do you think the LED 2000 would have made a difference or is the 100 more than enough? Thanks again for sharing the footage!!

 

[ronscuba]

That is probably the best color I've seen from a single chip HD camcorder shot underwater. No doubt the low light capabilities and manual white balance are the keys. Reminds me of my FX7. I'm very curious to see something from the Canon S10/100.

 

[DavidVik]

I am quite happy with the color, and the noise is very low. I must say I was a bit "surprised" by the limited number of manual controls that Sony offered on this camera (I figured they would at least offer priority shooting modes). I did notice this camera is a little "hot" with the whites, and you can set exposure compensation, so I dial in -1 or -2 EC depending upon what I am shooting. You can access this menu on the Bluefin through the front left dial.

The reef shots were in Pennekamp State Park, Key Largo depth anywhere from ~25 to 60 feet. The French Angelfish was in Boynton Beach Florida on a wreck at about 100 feet. The seconf wreck shot (with diver) is in Lake Michigan at about 80 feet. Manatee at Pennekamp, but at dusk with very little sunlight and muck/ ~3foot vis. The LED 1000 are nice for macro, and they will light up a diver that is close, but I am only planning on using them for macro shots.

I would love to see some sample Canon HF S10 footage; I believe the L&M Bluefin "C" prototypes were being tested in Bonaire last week at the Digital Shootout. That camera has many more manual control features; and is Fathom Imaging developing any optics?

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

That is probably the best color I've seen from a single chip HD camcorder shot underwater. No doubt the low light capabilities and manual white balance are the keys. Reminds me of my FX7. I'm very curious to see something from the Canon S10/100.

Ron

Me or Mike should have something up soon. I was actually thinking of ordering my L&M housing this week. But I won't be making it to a decent dive location till Sept. But I did like the 520V footage above. I think the 24 mbps on the Canon might have it edging out front. I have seen some test footage from L&M and it was a little better then the 520V. But in reality it all comes down to the person shooting, and what they like. And I truely love the complete manual controls of the Canon HF-S10 and the L&M Housing. So will see soon.

 

[ronscuba]

Mike brought the L&M housing to the NYUPS meeting in June. Looks sweet and tiny compared to my FX7 monster. Where you headed in Sept ?

 

[Video rookie]

DavidVik-

Some of the shots look like you have some vignetting. It appears the lens your are using will not allow full zoom. Is this the Fathom 90 lens? Nice video.