What qualifies as a primary light?

[victorzamora]

Double post.

 

[OMANDIVER]

why not? I've been doing it for 7 years with no issues when diving without a can... It stays where it is supposed to better than the canister, and deploys more easily than the canister. What is your objection to it?

it works but it's not great, I'm not sure I can be clearer. This is so obviously my own experience that I am relating, that I don't feel that I need to make that explicit.

 

[stuartv]

Burn-time wise, 3 hours is a minimum. While you may not be doing dives of that duration anytime in the immediate future, you will likely be doing multiple dives a day and the total time may add up to ~2 hours. An extra 50% burn time is never a bad thing.

At what level of cave training could you realistically start doing 2 hour dives?

If you're doing 2 x 1 hour dives per day, what's wrong with having a 90-minute burn time and changing batteries between dives?

If you're not going to do 2 hour dives anytime in the immediate future, why buy a light now that can handle that, for hundreds of dollars, when the tech (light and battery) is changing pretty fast and what you need could be a lot cheaper by the time you need it? Not to mention how batteries degrade over time, so buying a big, expensive battery pack that you won't actually need for a year or two means it won't even be what you paid for by the time you actually need it. And when a light that can give good output, beam angle, and adequate burn time (for a 1-hour dive - or even a fair bit longer, really, even with a 50% reserve) can be had now for well under $100, including multiple batteries?

 

[tbone1004]

2 hour dives in caves aren't uncommon once you hit the full cave level. It may be a pair of one hour dives back to back, but you don't really have the ability to swap batteries. I have no problem for those using a pair of the small backup lights and just using one on the way in and one on the way out, but much prefer a canister in that situation for ease of use. My biggest issue with the big handhelds like the LX20 from Dive Rite are just how damn big and heavy they are. It is truly exhausting using them in comparison the relatively tiny light heads on the LED canisters.

 

[stuartv]

2 hour dives in caves aren't uncommon once you hit the full cave level. It may be a pair of one hour dives back to back, but you don't really have the ability to swap batteries.

Why is that? Two one hour dives back to back means you're swapping tanks, aren't you? Are you not getting out of the water?

If you can't swap batteries between 2 1-hour dives, what about having an extra light and just swapping the light with the used battery for another light with a fresh battery? Backup light stays right where it is. These handheld lights with a single LED and single battery are so inexpensive compared to even a cheap can light, that having two (or 3) of the lights is totally feasible.

A D26 will easily last over 2 hours on High. Xtar claims 3.6h burn time on High and that's with a 4000mAh battery. My 26650 batteries test at 5300mAh. I have never actually tested my lights to see how long they'll go. I really should do that.

If the light really will go 4 hours on a single battery, then you would be fine for 2 hour dives with 1 as primary and 1 as backup, right?

 

[tbone1004]

not necessarily swapping tanks. Some of the traverses can be that long where you surface but aren't out of the water. Depends on how you log them.

if the d26 goes for over 2 hours on high it isn't doing it at a true 1000 lumen, but that's besides the point. yes your math i'd be fine with, but it's swapping things over mid dive which I'm not a huge fan of, but not totally opposed to. there is also the extra risk of dropping the handhelds down cracks which is annoying and not easily mitigated. Don't have that with canisters. pros and cons to both.
CL2300 Canister Light (6 batteries) – ANO Online Shop
I'll be cave diving with one of these next week and for the price they are very impressive from the initial use that I have had and my friends have had. Not as good as my UWLD, but it's a quarter of the price. I would use/recommend one of these before using multiple backup lights.

 

[eelnoraa]

Anybody own or use the Brinyte XML2 light? It looks like a decent light and won't hurt the wallet either.

Bringyte makes decent lights, but they also make many models. Their handhelds are being sold under many names, DRIS 500/1000. 1K Shorty, DGX600, just to name a few. They are quite reliable. But all are operate with LiOn rechargeable. So ultimate reliability depends on the battery. Their canister light execution is, despite their efforts, they have little experience on making the light right: too long cord, too stiff cord, goodman handle too big ... If I am on a cave dive, I probably want something more trusty and reliable.

Having that said, if just for a cavern class, no need to go to a canister light. A good handheld by Bringyte should be sufficient. If you are going into a true cave training, I don't think saving money on a light make sense at all.

PS. XML2 LED output rule of thumb: on handheld config with 1 LiON cell. The output is on the order of 400lumen. On canisters with multiple batteries, it can get to 700-800 lumen per LED but that is about it. With current tech, 10K lumen with 2 hour runtime is a really really expansive light with big battery pack.

 

[eelnoraa]

Not great

It is if you do it right. You want the hog to hang on the right side of your hit, same position as if you have a canister, just under the waist strap. It won't fall out. If you tug it in front, it will come out 100%

 

[eelnoraa]

Thank you everyone for the input! Can I ask another dumb question? It seems that all the lights that have come up are around 1k lumens, is this because you don't need more than that or because having more than that seriously reduces battery life? I found some lights that claim 3k lumens and others that claim as much as 20k lumens why not go for more available light output and dial it back to low power setting to get the burn time?

The answer is because they all use XML2 LED, which has a theoretical max output of ~1000lumen under ideal condition. So they quote the max output instead of the actual output. It is almost impossible to get to max output without a very large battery pack and/or short the life of the LED

 

[eelnoraa]

He prolly is referring to this model..

new Brinyte DIV10 Magnetic Switch LED Diving 150m Flashlight 3000LM N8YL | eBay

And we have a thread here on our very own board about them..

Brinyte DIV10 "3000 Lumen" Canister light Review

I have seriously contemplated getting one to get me through Intro.

I bought one of these when I was in Hong Kong. Here is what I can say after taking it apart, some mod and measurement:
- With King Kong 26650 unprotected cell, these light produce about 1500 lumen. it is very bright, more light so than a 21W HID. But 21W HID still punch further noticeably
- the light cord is way too long and stiff. it is uncomfortablely so. I have to swap the cord to a proper material and length, which wasn't easy. This light was not meant for end user maintenance.
- goodman handle is too wide, about 1" wider than a light money cold water handle

I mainly use it for dive vacation, LOB. It is smaller than a usual canister light. The ability to change brightness is good. In lower setting, the light easily last 4-5 hours on one charge. One charge per day on LOB. I will NOT use this light on a demanding dive (tech or cave, where a working light is essential)