Why did they stop making metal regs?

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When the G250 first came out the marketing approach was that the plastic case could be made to optimize air flow, and it did allow for the comparatively cheap incorporation of things like an adjustable flow vane. In that regard the G250 was an excellent reg, but it was not a major improvement over the Balanced Adjustable and it had a couple downsides - slightly larger case, a plastic case that could crack and break, a finish that quickly scuffed, and greatly reduced heat transfer.

It was lighter in the water, but with the downsizing of regs to the S600, etc the loss of buoyancy overtook the loss of weight, so in the end they weighed the same in the water. In any case it is a bit of a red herring as mouthpiece design and the push/pull effects of hose length have a far greater impact on jaw fatigue.

In short, the big motivator was reduced production cost, but done in a manner where they could actually increase the retail price.

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The A700 represents a return back to metal cases and with current technology borrowed from the auto industry they can produce a superb metal case with excellent flow dynamics. I like the design and the case is exceptionally well made, but is pretty heavy and with small size it also lacks buoyancy so we'll have to see whether weight *finally* is an issue on a second stage or not.

My one concern is that it uses 4 stainless steel screws to secure the chrome plated brass face plate into the chrome plated brass case. It has been interesting as when you express that concern to the sales people, they indicate the the technical people are using a special lubricant to isolate the parts. However, the technical / service people seem to be totally unaware of it. I suspect in a few years, after SP has had to warranty replace a bunch of cases with stuck/broken off screws due to dissimilar metal corrosion issues, we'll see a new generation A700 with a stainless steel band clamp.
 
Why - simple - because metal ones last, and last and last. My 40+ year old 109's are near new, and function flawlessly. Plastic models that "replaced" this "antiquated" model have come and gone.... go figure - folks have to keep buying new ones. Marketing, marketing, marketing...

Truth be told, they don't want us spending $15 - $25 a year on parts forever, but rather we spent $400 every couple years on new regs.....

side note: a LDS here as a mint 109 in a display case of "old obsolete stuff". They took it in trade to a guy who just had to update. He won't sell it..(even if I waive all liability - he is an attorney, and I have enough legal background that this would be fine). Its all about selling new stuff! grrrrrrrrrrr!
 
Another factor to those already mentioned is a lot more design freedom for engineers to optimize flow characteristics. This is not to say that it could not be duplicated in metal, but the cost gets insane and manufacturing tolerances are sloppier.

Over time, there will be plastic-body regulators that emerge as classics. The advantages of plastic are slowly becoming more pronounced now that 3D solids modeling, desktop prototyping, and computer flow (gas and mold) simulation have become viable and affordable. My current all-time favorite is the original Oceanic Omega that is around 28 years old, and has a plastic housing.
 
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I did not know regs could be so beautiful...
I never really noted the weight of my metal regs when in the water. Interestingly, even though I had some balanced adjustable plastic 2nds, I found my metal 2nds actually a better breather.

Metal regs are rare here in my area, so when I saw some going on a local ads site, I got them and refinished them.

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Well, as can be seen above, ain't that the truth!

But at any rate, now I'm trying to get rid of my plastic 2nds :D
 
They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder... To my eyes, the vast majority of today's regulators are rather plain looking. I really like the looks of the Scubapro A700, but share DA's concerns about dissimilar metal issues. You would have thought that Scubapro had learned that lesson from all the major problems they had with the aluminum bodied first stages that they produced for a few years.

With that said, I have heard that the A700 was designed by a former Mares engineer who joined the Scubapro ranks a few years ago. Makes sense, as Mares makes some great metal second stages. I am a BIG fan of the Proton Metal. A close friend of mine has been diving with two different Mares MR22 Abyss regs for around the last 12 years. Other than when used in salt water, I don't think the guy even rinses them off. After hundreds and hundreds of dives, they still look great. The only visible wear is to the plastic front covers. His service philosophy is to send them to me for service when the IP develops more than 5 psi of creep, or when the second stage begins to slowly leak.

Yeah... The manufacturers should take the time to look at some vintage classics. Considering how well cars like the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger sell due to their styling, the modern regs have a lot of room for improvement.

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This is metal as well - Kirby Morgan super flow regulator Kirby Morgan Dive Systems | Products | Full Face Mask Regulators

I know it says "Full Face Mask Regulator" but it is for the M-48 mask, which takes a standard 2nd stage... Actually I know someone who dives this regulator all the time.
 
Mares still makes all metal regs. And they cost less than plastic Scubapros and Aqualung. :wink:

Whoa, whoa, ho'se whoa, nobody said anything about less money to the consumer, I mean less money to manufacture and therefore a greater profit margin. Scuba Pro and AL and others, due to superior name recognition, can demand more money for their products than others such as Mares who cannot regardless of the material used. I mean after the HUB it is a wonder they are still in business, my G-----.

No, plastic is cheaper to make and the manufactures which are mostly just name plates as this stuff all comes from just a few places anyways spec out the materials and basic design and the mold is cut and plastic goo is oozed in, ksssssppplllsssshhh, and voila, a plastic fantastic composite regulator. Tons of profit, after all, it is life support equipment :rofl3:, the sheep will pay.

N, the Rebs yelled yahooooooo and the Yanks cried boohoo so were the Hell does woohoo come in at?
 
My gut tells me they quit using metal because plastic is cheaper. However, I bought two Sherwood Magnums in the mid 80s and they have plastic second stages. They have held up great and work like new. It's very easy to unscrew the front and get at the diaphram etc. I suppose there might be something to the "corrosion" argument but my old metal regs still look and work great too. That kinda leaves me in this position: if I'm looking to buy and old reg and it's metal, I just buy it. If it's plastic it had better say Sherwood on it or I'll have to come here for some opinions first.
 
Amigos,

I started diving in 1969 and my first regulator was a beautiful simple all metal MR12 (as shown in Greg's GREAT photos :)

Over the years I owned a Conshelf XIV plus now have a "modern" Aqualung Titan LX. Uses the same parts as certain older Conshelf models.

I recently acquired a working MR12 plus last summer dived my Conshelf XI (yes, an 11) They both breathe fine when set up by a competent regulator tech!

I think there is a bit of weight difference in the second stages compared to a "modern" one but not a huge amount.

Cost to manufacture as many have said just like in other products was the main reason.

The latest poster's comments about 1980 Sherwood plastic second stages is spot on along with my current Aqualung Titan LX. It's scratched with somewhere around 500 + dives but it keeps on ticking.

I wouldn't pay a lot for a old metal reg unless you're a collector and really want a particular model.

But USD and Voit / Swimaster models can be used no problem :)

See photo of Luis and me practicing our "tech diver prayer" pose last summer. (Photo by ALlan Klauda AKA SimonBeans :)

Geez! Where's all our "safety" gear and how did we survive?

LOL.....

David Haas
 

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Amigos,

I started diving in 1969 and my first regulator was a beautiful simple all metal MR12 (as shown in Greg's GREAT photos :)

Over the years I owned a Conshelf XIV plus now have a "modern" Aqualung Titan LX. Uses the same parts as certain older Conshelf models.

I recently acquired a working MR12 plus last summer dived my Conshelf XI (yes, an 11) They both breathe fine when set up by a competent regulator tech!

I think there is a bit of weight difference in the second stages compared to a "modern" one but not a huge amount.

Cost to manufacture as many have said just like in other products was the main reason.

The latest poster's comments about 1980 Sherwood plastic second stages is spot on along with my current Aqualung Titan LX. It's scratched with somewhere around 500 + dives but it keeps on ticking.

I wouldn't pay a lot for a old metal reg unless you're a collector and really want a particular model.

But USD and Voit / Swimaster models can be used no problem :)

See photo of Luis and me practicing our "tech diver prayer" pose last summer. (Photo by ALlan Klauda AKA SimonBeans :)

Geez! Where's all our "safety" gear and how did we survive?

LOL.....

David Haas

I'll bet by the end of your dive you had your mask on your forehead! Gasp! LOL

Jim
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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