Why we dive with a Pony

[Dr Wu]

Now, let's count the steps for an OOA emergency with a pony tank. 1. Put the regulator that is bungied under my chin in my mouth. 2. Go UP.

What would you do in the event that the pony regulator did not work?

You seem convinced that your buddy will likely have a faulty second.

What assures you the pony will function properly?

 

[scubadobadoo]

That said, keep watching out for the trolls. Many of them have one actual dive for every hundred posts they make.

It takes a while but they are eventually crushed in the threads and are forced to change their screen name to avoid further embarrassment.

Let me remind you that this is a flame free zone. If you don't have something productive to add to the conversation then maybe you should move to another thread. I personally have no issue with you commenting on SB with repetitive semantics, trolling and baiting but perhaps THIS area isn't the place, respectfully. SOme people post a lot on SB because they like to help other people and that's a good thing. Maybe some of these people with thousands of posts to their hundreds of dives may help someone to actually "be secure instead of feeling secure." Ultimately though, "arguments" like the one above are not an insult to the person you are talking to but rather to SB in general.

No. I don't think so.

Pony bottles have become quite popular with divers that have not fully explored the reason for their existence or what use they can be.

That's why you see so many "It just gives me a feeling of security" responses.

Feeling secure is not being secure.

I read this the first several times you posted it in this thread. Like I said before, SEMANTICS. That said, here was my response for you AGAIN since you seem to like repetition......

Nothing wrong with a little redundancy in situations where it is warranted. Diving in Wreck Valley warrants it for sure. It may be the least recreational recreational diving in the US. I lived in NYC for 12 years and diving off a boat in NJ or the NE is no day at Dutch Springs or Key Largo for sure at times.

Sure, a diver shouldn't improperly rely on a pony bottle for security BUT I don't think the OP was implying that one should. I think the OP meant that his gear (in this case) his pony bottle, makes him feel more comfortable in the water. I can understand this. IMHO safety while diving is ALL ABOUT feeling comfortable. If you don't feel comfortable while diving then you have given the avalanche of panic a foot hold. I like my dry suit, my regs, my BP/W, and my fins and I don't feel AS comfortable when I am not using them as I do when I am. We can all understand this. The OP feels this way about HIS gear too and that is how he learned and how he was taught.

Come dive in Wreck Valley if you have a chance. Some of you have been in like conditions, some of you haven't. If you haven't, my bet is you would feel more comfortable with a pony bottle assuming you had a chance to train with it.

So dive with your favorite stuffed animal if it makes you feel better. I don't care, as long as it helps to bring you back to the boat safely.

As for diving in Bonaire with one, well that's kinda silly IMHO.

 

[koozemani]

Considering whose gear it is, I have more faith in my pony, which I know has been maintained and was working at the beginning of the dive, then my buddy's gear who, as it was mentioned earlier, is probably around here somewhere.

I generally dive with the same buddy, and know that she is never far away, but the time that it will take to locate, get to, and secure her Octo far exceeds the time it will take to "grab the reg under my chin".

We can turn this into another BP/W BCD type argument, but that really won't accomplish anything, nor is it likely to detract any of the supporters from either side. The OP and a few of the other posters clearly explained why they favor a pony. Both by giving their reasons and outlining some of the potential what ifs. Poopooing them with an argument of your training and experience suck is not going to have divers everywhere ditching their ponies.

I like my pony and I don't care who knows

 

[Bubbletrubble]

As for diving in Bonaire with one, well that's kinda silly IMHO.

@scubadobadoo: Could you elaborate on why you think diving in Bonaire with a pony bottle is silly?

 

[beasleym]

I'll second the attack mode, it's getting old. Share your experiences and philosophies and move on. I'm here to try and help, just like a lot of others have done for me. I've experienced a lot of smart people with no common sense, those that in your face, I'm right and your wrong people. It detracts from SB and wastes space. The point about how do you know it will work is warped - it gets serviced regularly and is regularly swapped with my prime, I check it's charge, and it's breath tested before I go down. So what's to fail - it could but I can sleep with the fraction of a percent chance vs my experiences of buddies not being close.

I've been diving since before BCD's, or even the old horseshoes and with a single stage regulator. Could I do it today, probably. I put my faith in experience, listening to others that make sense with what they say and using modern equipment.- that's why I'm still alive today after 43 years of diving.

 

[scubadobadoo]

@scubadobadoo: Could you elaborate on why you think diving in Bonaire with a pony bottle is silly?

Sure, but honestly I think my opinion on this subject has been expressed enough. :tmi2:

But for you since you are a good guy...

Like I said before, I don't really care what people dive with, if it brings them back to shore or the boat in good condition. I really mean that so my comment about Bonaire was kinda joking and in the spirit of silliness with the wink at the end.

However, I would never lug a pony bottle to Bonaire. IMHO it is over kill FOR ME IN BONAIRE as I tend to dive with my wife (buddy for 10 yrs now) and we go slow and shallow and never separate by more than a few feet. We enjoy the dive together and she is my pony bottle. IMHO that is what Bonaire is for. It's a pool compared to Wreck Valley. BUT AGAIN If a pony bottle makes or allows you to be or feel (LOL) more secure in Bonaire and you don't mind lugging it on the plane then have at it. It's really almost a controlled environment unlike Wreck Valley where nothing is a given. AND I am not saying that one should let their guard down in Bonaire but a pony bottle is really not a needed tool for MY Bonaire but maybe you are doing different dives there. I have ZERO interest in going down to 100 feet in Bonaire just so I can see sand and have less bottom time. I think you know what I mean and I will shut up now.

 

[Crush]

That said, keep watching out for the trolls. Many of them have one actual dive for every hundred posts they make.

Have you seen my sig line?

 

[saudio]

What would you do in the event that the pony regulator did not work?

You seem convinced that your buddy will likely have a faulty second.

What assures you the pony will function properly?

A. The same thing I would do if my buddy's donor regulator didn't work, head UP. The difference would be that I didn't waste precious seconds finding my buddy that could have been used making an emergency ascent.

B. Likely? Not at all. More likely than the regulator I personally service and test before every dive? Absolutely.

C. Nothing "assures" me 100%. What "assures" you that a buddy is going to be exactly where you need him to be if you are OOA, and that his gear works, and that he won't panic?

 

[JKPAO]

I love to dive in New Jersey, where most boats REQUIRE redundancy! It can come in many set-ups but widely used are steel tanks with H valve or Manifolded Doubles ......or a Pony or.... or . I dive Double 80's and they allow me the redundancy and ample gas for all the diving I take on. Their are many others available and what you use is of your concern. The training or practice should take place with the gear you intend to use. Ater that the training should take care of the probs with any setup.
The diving here does warrant training and equipment familiarity with good dive planning. All have been discussed to no end on other threads as not to bore you.
I do not have any issue with any setup, it might be the person that dives his gear without the needed instruction that might give me an issue! I do not get that the Op is not trained for his gear he chose. Happy diving!
See you topside! John

 

[Rocketmahn]

I dive with a back mounted pony on all of my rec dives - even in the tropics, and have thought about adding one for the Tec dives too.

As far as I can discern there is no down-side to diving a pony, and even a small pony offers much more reliability and safety than a buddies air or diving doubles...

I don't want to rehash all of the previously discussed reason for having a pony - equipment failure, buddy too far away, OOA etc. but hope to add a few new examples.

1) For instance - a graybeard dive instructor of mine had gotten a "bad air fill" when the new guy at the shop didn't open the cooling louvers and turn on the fans in the compressor shed before he started filling tanks. The compressor eventually overheated, but before it did it burnt particles that put CO (carbon monoxide) into the breathing gas. The dive instructor and his dive buddy both had gotten bad fills which were discovered after they started their dive and neither felt quite right, surfaced to discuss, and immediately got really bad headaches.

My point is that it is likely that you and your dive buddy could both have bad gas from the same source, so even if your buddy is only 2' away the whole dive - it won't help if you need to use their "bad" air.
A pony filled from a separate air source provides the best redundancy (I only fill mine once or twice a year). (Note: having "doubles" would not have helped in this situation...)

2) Diving Nitrox? What if you have mis-marked the tanks as far as the % or MOD (ie 32% and wrote 23%) or the O2 analyzer was mis-calibrated etc... Now you have too much O2 for your depth and O2 toxicity symptoms occurs rapidly. You could grab your buddy's octo, but a pony regulator hanging around your neck would get you on safer gas much quicker - (the re-breather guys that have taken an O2 hit say that a bail out valve is necessary to switch quickly form one gas to another and that even switching to a backup regulator takes too long when you are starting to convulse..) (Note: having "doubles" would not help in this situation...)

3) Diving doubles for redundancy? Don't damage the manifold isolation valve - that and the gas are the two single point failure modes for doubles. A pony doesn't have those issues.

In short a Pony type of system does not have any failure modes in common with your main backgas, or your buddies system, and is therefore the only truly redundant airsource available to you.

Also I recommend a back mounted pony cylinder as it is out of the way. Yes I sling too, but have been smacked in the face during a giant stride, have had the bottle hit my mask while doing underwater flips, and have to reach around it for the SPG.

I back mount my pony upside down as it is much easier to reach down and back (to about your kidneys) and turn it off if needed. Also I recommend that you DO NOT mount it to your main tank, but to the BCD/STA cam bands.
Have you ever seen someones tank slip off their back and pull the reg out of their mouth? When that happens underwater there goes your pony too!