Your thoughts on LDS experience thread.......

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I'm not thinking so much in terms of being paid better but treated better with better perks. I'd like to see fewer instructors who are more active and stick around longer, and the way to achieve that is not necessarily better pay but greater diving satisfaction and reward. Key man pricing is a valued perk to an avid diver, not so much to a mercenary just after the money. Being a trip leader to places like the Caymans or Honduras is a valued perk to an avid diver, not so much to a mercenary just after the money. See where I am going?

Now I know the above can be found in some places but what I've seen around here is a push by agencies/shops to crank out instructors by the boat load, burn them out by assigning them to OW classes weekend after weekend after weekend all year long, then replace them next spring with the next boat load of new instructors.
 
Just to add a bit to the above, I think the industry is better served (and I give this advice to prospective students) to have instructors who really love to dive. Teaching an OW class is not "diving", it's teaching. And it's important that an instructor love teaching but that cannot be all that they do, over and over. I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly but I have talked to instructors who have spent virtually every weekend in the water and logged hundreds of "dives" that year, but can't remember the last time they just did a fun dive with the guys. No students, no skills, just dive for the fun of it.
 
I think it is unfair to go to your local dive shop, check out the gear and then buy it on line. Most manufacturers require their product to be sold at a certain price or that store will loose it's ability to sell that brand. Also these shop owners have a lot more expenses- employees, rent, utilities, advertising....unlike some internet online stores. There are some internet stores that have actual store fronts. And because they sell so much gear, manufactures may be forced to look the other way on prices because of the volume they sell. We do to have a store in the DFW area that is a big online store also.


As far as LDS goes, I'm sorry to hear about some stores ignoring customers. There are so many people that get into the business for their egos. I have also seen friends, who love diving, pour their retirements into buying a store, but are not business people and end up loosing everything. It's a hard business to be in. When I was between jobs, I tried to make a living working at a scuba store and being a staff instructor. It is a very hard way to make a living and realized I was ready to go back to my regular work.
 
I think it is unfair to go to your local dive shop, check out the gear and then buy it on line. Most manufacturers require their product to be sold at a certain price or that store will loose it's ability to sell that brand. Also these shop owners have a lot more expenses- employees, rent, utilities, advertising....unlike some internet online stores. There are some internet stores that have actual store fronts. And because they sell so much gear, manufactures may be forced to look the other way on prices because of the volume they sell. We do to have a store in the DFW area that is a big online store also.

That all may be technically accurate but I think is a mischaracterization. I'd say *most* internet stores have a storefront with all the typical LDS overhead. At least the bigger players in the online segment do.

I also think it's wrong to "use" the LDS to select and size gear then go buy online to save a few bucks. I've consistently told that to people over the years despite being an advocate of online buying. But... I don't think walking into a store equates to a contractual obligation to complete a sale. And I've found that people can define "a few bucks" very differently. It really comes down to intent and I don't think it's always so easy to divine someone's intent.
 
Great opinions..................thanks for your thoughts.



What is the real dive industry business plan?

OW students
retail sales
continuing education
technical diving
diving?
etc..................


Where does promoting the avid enthusiastic sport of scuba diving come into the business model. Where is the scuba business for advancing the sport of Scuba Diving?


Let me know your thoughts.
 
The agencies seem to indoctrinate new divers that they must continually advance to the next level. That pyramid scheme to which you refer. By the time you are AOW with a few specialties, you have been convinced that any "real" diver should aspire to be a DM. Then of course any DM should have the goal of being instructor.
And no one understands when you tell them no, you are perfectly happy as a DM. I like the relationship I have with students versus the one I see them have with instructors.
And every time I go in the shop they pump me to go instructor. I would love instructing (as I love DMing) but I just don't see where they have a need for me.
Same with DM's. Some shops really push you to be DM's and promise you a place in the shop...right along with the other dozen DM's they certified at the same time.

At least instructors have a chance to earn some of their expenses back. I don't know about Dallas and Austin but around Houston DM's aren't paid anything. Our expenses to and from classes as well as check out dive locations is all on us. If going to BL or WP that means an overnight stay and hotel bills, a weekend can cost us $100+ out of our pocket. The offer of keyman discounts always sound good and is great when you need that initial set of full gear but after that it isn't used much. At least I can't afford to replace gear once a year even WITH the discount. We do get a 10% discount on anything we need in the shop. At this point we have more gear than some dive shops but the savings on mask defog and snap bolts (when I can find them) helps.

As a DM, another thing I'd like to see changed is notifications of classes. It is the norm to be called on a Thursday or Friday night and asked if you can DM the pool or checkouts on Saturday. The instructors tell me it's the same way with them. When the class schedule is made, why can't the instructor and DM both be assigned to a class and be given that 3-6 month class schedule? We can then mark our calendars to know to be available that weekend or to be able to tell the shop you have a conflict. We understand that some classes won't make but we'd rather find ourselves with a sudden free weekend than upset the shop when we tell them we already have concrete plans in place....and be treated as if we let down the hole shop. Seems like common courtesy to me!

I would like to see more done to involve the new divers AND the 'old' divers in a shop. Once you've gone as high as you want or the shop sees that you aren't interested in more classes, they are finished with you. There's no effort to get divers in the water locally. I remember being a new diver and going to the old spot The Reef every weekend. The more time I spent with the local divers the more I learned about the gear they used, how it worked and the chance to try out different brands of gear. My shopping list rapidly grew! That's lots different than seeing fins hanging on the wall and a store clerk trying to tell you how well they work.

Most of us don't care if vis is only to the end of your arm, it's wet. And you have to admit diving in our local lakes make us better divers. New divers are pushed into salt water dive trips, sometimes to locations they are not trained to handle. Why not sponsor a few outings locally so those new divers can put those new skills to use. To actually practice what they've learned, especially buoyancy, rather than be thrown into currents and depths on a trip they've only seen on a screen or been told about? I guess that's why I enjoy mentoring as much as DM'ing. Being available as a dive buddy to just spend some time in the water with new divers gives them confidence and hones skills they'll always use.

Oops sorry...getting off the soapbox, I've rambled enough.
 
Good post Dee. :wink:
 
Dee, I can relate to all that you said. Scheduling - it is insane to wait until Thursday night especially when they know way sooner. Although now my shop has just started scheduling quarterly for instructors. I guess as a DM you have to make the first move and request a class ahead of time.

I think shops should focus more on getting divers to dive locally, and be members of dive clubs. The local shops respect CHUM club (or at least don't want to be on our ***** list) but don't really embrace us or like us. They see us as competitors not partners. Sure, we do take some trip business away but most of our trips are the short hop budget trips they don't do in the first place. And by virtue of keeping hundreds of divers active, just think of how much more training they do, and how much faster they are wearing out their gear.

Unfortunately, I think there is an element of protectionism involved. For many new divers, everything they know about scuba is through the shop. If they need gear, more training, trips, buddies, or just advice the only place they know to go is their shop. Their instructors are the best and smartest scuba divers in the whole world, to them. I think shops are reluctant to introduce these divers to the rest of the scuba world. They don't really want their customers to meet lots of buddies with different training and gear (and opinions), to discover there are lots of other places to buy gear and get training, to realize their shop is but a small dot on the landscape. The shops know they can't stop it from eventually happening but they don't want to facilitate it. I understand their concern and I'm sure in some cases it does take away business but I don't think they really understand that if they focus on making the whole pie (the industry) larger then their share of that pie will also get larger.
 
I agree with RH about many shops keeping their newer students in the dark. I see this especially a problem with shops that are subpar, and afraid of loosing business. The ones that are top tier shops seem to have better dive clubs, more people getting out and doing things, and its because the networking isn't detrimental to the shop, rather it facilitates its flourishing hold in the market.

Just something I've observed, not a proven algorithm.
 
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