Counterfeit gear fear

[cummings66]

The question is why should someone counterfeit somthing?

If you have a cheaper backplate and it's good people will buy it.[
I'm still waiting for my louis vuitton wing however.

You counterfeit something because you can sell it as a name brand for less money than the namebrand, but more money than you could sell your own for.

Follow the money.

 

[RonFrank]

I hear my lds complain about knock-off gear, mostly Back plates and such, but it has me wondering how prevelant counterfeit gear is in the scuba market. Anyone ever see life-support counterfeited. . . or any other gear for that matter?

I think it is by in large an urban legend started by the LDS to discourage online sales.

I've purchased gear from just about every source available. ScubaToys, LP, Used off of Ebay, used from ScubaBoard members, from friends, from out of business fire sales, direct from the manufacture, and from the LDS.

I've NEVER seen anything counterfeit in the scuba industry. Heck, scuba grey market is not what most would consider grey as most scuba products are being sold in the country that they were intended. Non-Authorized dealers are NOT what most of the world considers grey. Most camera dealers that sell grey market are in fact authorized dealers. Grey market is NOT counterfeit, so let's not confuse the two terms.

I've never seen a true counterfeit scuba product. A knock off is NOT counterfeit, just modeled after a popular design. One could consider the Mares XVision or the Atomic Subframe masks knock off designs as they basically use the BigEyes design that was first manufactured by Cressi.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Yep: Nailed it in one, Ron.

 

[DarthWader]

Gear manufactured under the Trident label, is usually a design that has been purchased for the purpose of reproduction and resale by dive shops, without manufacturer's warranty, commission, sales agreements, etc.

I know that Sea Elite has bought designs for their regulators, (which I've heard are actually Dive-Rite regs), and wetsuits. I use both the Sea Elite Tek-X reg/octo, and I have two Sea Elite wetsuits. The gear has stood up to the abuse I've dished out to it, and I couldn't be happier with it.

I've heard that OMS Regs are made by, IIRC, Apeks, and I'm okay with that; there's a lot of that type of product distribution going around. I guess my main concern is some Chinese sweatshop turning out Apeks clones, Zeagle, Aqualung, etc. I'm not experienced enough to spot reasonably fakes, which is why I asked on the proliferation of counterfeit gear/labels

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Yeah... That would be quite worrisome, wouldn't it?

 

[Racket]

You counterfeit something because you can sell it as a name brand for less money than the namebrand, but more money than you could sell your own for.

Follow the money.

Correct, but with items such as backplates, there is no need.

Look at companies talked about on this forum. Do you think they would sell more product if they were sold as fakes, for less.

If you can build a good product for less (not even that much less) people will buy it.

 

[DarthWader]

I think it is by in large an urban legend started by the LDS to discourage online sales.

I suspect you're right, my lds is not the most objecive retailer I've met, but I just don't have the technical knowledge or experience to refute these claims.

I've NEVER seen anything counterfeit in the scuba industry. Heck, scuba grey market is not what most would consider grey as most scuba products are being sold in the country that they were intended. Non-Authorized dealers are NOT what most of the world considers grey. Most camera dealers that sell grey market are in fact authorized dealers. Grey market is NOT counterfeit, so let's not confuse the two terms. I've never seen a true counterfeit scuba product. A knock off is NOT counterfeit, just modeled after a popular design. One could consider the Mares XVision or the Atomic Subframe masks knock off designs as they basically use the BigEyes design that was first manufactured by Cressi.

I was thinking about the "Grey Market" as I penned my query, but did not want to bring it up. I did uses the terms "knock-off" and "counterfeit" synonymously, thanks for the clarification as I'm more concerned with counterfeit products than I am borrowed designs.

 

[RonFrank]

I've heard that OMS Regs are made by, IIRC, Apeks, and I'm okay with that; there's a lot of that type of product distribution going around. I guess my main concern is some Chinese sweatshop turning out Apeks clones, Zeagle, Aqualung, etc. I'm not experienced enough to spot reasonably fakes, which is why I asked on the proliferation of counterfeit gear/labels

The Chinese have been known to violate patent rights, and manufacture products based on specs that they produce for manufactures under contract as name brand items. Batteries are a good example.

However they won't go so far as to put a name brand on an item if they are not manufacturing for that company. Or at least not that I've read.

I don't think the Scuba retail marketplace is large enough to support a huge effort to counterfeit designs. I would also think that efforts made toward that end would be halted by manufactures when they got wind of it.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Additionally, I don't think anyone is getting rich, selling dive gear. (Except for the BIG companies/shops) There's that saying going around, that the best way to make a million dollars is to start with two million and open a dive shop.

 

[DarthWader]

Well that could also be a "scare tactic" used by your lds so you pay more money to get the items from them.

I suspected as much myself, but I did a price comparison, and he's giving me the best price I can find. I do sense an imense dislike of the e-community though, and I've been "guilted" for buying from other sourcres (both competing les and online (ebay). but he did cause me to start worrying about the quality of major online purchases.