Counterfeit gear fear

[johnny_bravo]

Well that could also be a "scare tactic" used by your lds so you pay more money to get the items from them.

This is so true it hurts...I had a guy tell me (happened to be a dive shop owner or manager) last week that LP sells all counterfeit goods :shakehead

Cheers.

-J.-

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

The benefit of making major purchases like regulators or dive computers from your LDS, is that hopefully, they can also provide annual service and repair, should it become required. If you buy tanks locally, you can usually get them inspected and hydro'd locally, too. There are some advantages. On the other hand, I've known people who've bought every bit of gear on-line.

The major problem that arises, and the reason why many LDS owners are not too keen on the Internet, is because customers come in, try on a wetsuit, fiddle with various gear, and then leave without buying anything, because they go home and find it on the internet, even if/when by the time shipping is added in, they haven't saved much money. As a small LDS, it's difficult to compete with the prices that big internet companies can get away with, because they make it up in sales volume.

This is what I've heard from dive shops, anyway... I don't know that I agree with all of it, or the resultant anti-internet bias, but there you have it.

 

[Colliam7]

I do sense an imense dislike of the e-community though, and I've been "guilted" for buying from other sourcres (both competing les and online (ebay).

But, the LDS need to, and CAN if they wish, adapt to the e environment for sales (classes, and some gear). I purchase all new gear through my LDS. By and large their prices are competitive, as it sounds like yours is - certainly the after sales support is worth far more than any price difference. I purchase some used gear through eBay - at my risk, etc. It gives me a chance to buy used gear not available through the LDS, or brands I'd like to try that aren't carried by my LDS. (I suspect it falls in the 'don't ask, don't tell' category when I work with them.) My (admittedly self-serving) rationalization - if someone, somewhere wants to buy a new piece of gear through their LDS, but needs to sell their old gear first in order to afford the new gear (my LDS isn't like a car dealer, they don't buy used gear), then by taking it off their hands through eBay I am actually helping some LDS.

 

[DarthWader]

I'm quite happy with my lds, and I will buy regularly from it, but I don't feel the over-riding responsibility to exclusivity either. I will buy outside of the lds (not from Leisure pro though, unreasonable bias) and I will pick up bargains where I find them. unfortunately, I feel a bit vulnerable without the safty net of a knowladgeable lds backing me up, hence my fear of getting stuck with counterfeit gear.

 

[RonFrank]

The benefit of making major purchases like regulators or dive computers from your LDS, is that hopefully, they can also provide annual service and repair, should it become required.

One should be able to get service from the LDS regardless of where things are purchased.

Our LDS recently raised service prices to the point where myself and others have been sending our regs out for service. $120 to service a first and second is just too damn high when I can get the same service for $55 from TDL.

LDS's historically have not had to compete on price. I notice that there is very little gear overlap across stores, and where there is overlap, the prices are mostly fixed. Along comes the internet, and all of a sudden these business owners have to do more than purchase inventory, and sell it for a fixed price with no competition.

Companies like LP, and ScubaToys just seem to get better and better at competition. Now LP will guarantee fit on many personal items like fins. If they don't fit, send them back, and they pay shipping. ScubaToys does similar things.

Even with the internet, the LDS's refuse to compete. The give a song and dance about the dangers of purchasing life support gear online during OW, and the vast majority of the new OW students drop between $400~$500 on personal gear you can get online for $200~$300. That mask that LP sells for $30 that the LDS sells for $75 has one heck of a huge markup.

Ironically a buddy of mine dropped maybe 3K on equipment at our LDS, and he get's no better treatment than I do. In fact, they were really going to take him to the cleaners when he wanted some tanks O2 cleaned and hydro'd. I spent less initially, got higher end gear, and seem to get the same treatment from our LDS.

I use the LDS for training, tank fills, and small items. One does not save much $$$ on a lot of accessories as prices on a $25 item with a 10% savings when buying online are pointless. Big ticket items however generally come with huge savings, as do high volume items like masks, and other personal items.

I would love it if the LDS would compete. If they make $50 on a BC instead of $200, that's $50 more than nothing.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Once again, I agree with you, Ron. Sorry to hear that your LDS isn't doing what it takes to ensure their long-term survival. It's sad to see...

 

[DarthWader]

Well Ron, I must say, I feel a bit better. I guess there probably isn't an evil counterfeit scuba ring out there waiting for me. As was stated earlier, I tend to agree that the industry is too small for counterfeits to propagate.
Didn't meant for this to turn into an LDS vs. internet discussion though. certainly the industry is having growing pains and hopefully we, the consumers, will benefit from it.
since I'm still in the process of acquiring all my gear, I'll stick mostly with an lds, I'll pay that little bit extra for peace of mind.
thanks for the input guys, you've helped me clear this up a bit.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Good luck to you, Darth. My only advice would be to keep an eye on internet prices versus your LDS's prices. Everyone has to make a living, and if the LDS's mark-ups aren't TOO painful, and they seem to be good folks and give good service, by all means, give them your patronage. Sometimes, for odds and ends, or brands of items that they don't carry, Scuba Toys, Leisure Pro, or Diver's Direct are your best choices. Again, good luck!

 

[RonFrank]

Once again, I agree with you, Ron. Sorry to hear that your LDS isn't doing what it takes to ensure their long-term survival. It's sad to see...

Actually I think they will survive. They have been doing so for close to 40 years. They do a lot of things right, like top notch instruction and a class act travel agency. I just don't like their retail pricing policies.

 

[anzac65]

Correct, but with items such as backplates, there is no need.

Look at companies talked about on this forum. Do you think they would sell more product if they were sold as fakes, for less.

If you can build a good product for less (not even that much less) people will buy it.

Not true. Make it out of cheap crap and add bad workmanship. Claim it's a quality brand, and hey presto, a profitable rip-off.