DIR for recreational divers?

[chrpai]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
>>Incorrect.

Thats your opinion.

>>However, if you can't reach your valve, then you can't turn it on if you made a mistake, if you left it partially on and it fails at depth, or if some dumb boat monkey or other diver touches your gear by mistake. You can't deal with a situation if you're doing a boat dive in a 4 - 5 foot sea (not uncommon up here) and you slip before you're ready.

I check it before doing the entrance, and I do it again just below the surface when I do a bubble check with my buddy. The god damn valve is on and I'm sure as hell ain't shutting it off.



>>In addition, it would come in handy if you had a free flow. Personally, once I started sharing with my buddy, I'd turn off the valve to conserve the gas and, depending on the circumstances, turn it back on to see if it was working again or if we needed the gas. Either way, it beats letting it vent into the ocean where it does no good for anyone.

You don't need that gas anyways. Your dive planning should have provided more then ample gas from your alternate source.

>>Finally, if I did blow a hose, I'd also turn it off once I had secured a backup. Personally, I'd rather not listen to the noise.

Oh that's a real important reason.

>>Your real issue is that GUE teaches it, right?

If thats what you want to believe. For the record my tank is positioned so that I can reach the valve. There just isn't any valid reason to do so.

>>BTW, before you ask, you have an absolute right to your opinion. The fact that it is wrong doesn't lessen your right to hold it.

If its an opinion, how can it be wrong?

 

[chrpai]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...


Now you're a little low on gas, and the reg is dumping air...your buddy is a little bit slow to respond b/c now viz has gone to zero.....frankly, I'd like to be able to shut my valve down and conserve whatever gas I've got. I know if I continue to let it free-flow I'm going to have a whole lot less chance of getting back to the surface, or over to my buddy for an air share.

Huh? I'm trying to make sense out of that. A single tank diver... and your going to shut your valve down to conserve gas so that you have a better chance of getting to your buddy or doing a cesa? Just what are you breathing after you shut that valve down?

Weren't you taught how to breath a freeflowing reg while doing a CESA? If your reg is freeflowing, gas is low, and your buddy aint there to help you, might I suggest there is only one thing that should be on your mind?

 

[SeaJay]

Okay, man...

We're all friends here.

Apparently, we don't see eye-to-eye.

That's cool. Your favorite color might not be mine, either.

No worries, mate. We have our reasons for our opinions. Apparently, you do too.

Sorry we upset you. That's not the intent.

 

[detroit diver]

Here's a situation I had a couple of months ago.

Single tank dive. Suddenly, my hose connection to my second stage begins to shoot bubbles out of it.

The natural reaction would be to tighten the fitting. But I learned that doing so while the hose was still pressurized would just cut the o-ring and kill the dive.

My choice? I signaled air share to my buddy. I reached back and shut down my valve, depressurized the hose by purging, and THEN tightened the fitting. I then reached back and opened up my valve and the bubbles had stopped. Gave back my buddy's reg, and continued the dive.

Single tank dive. Warm water. Finished the dive that I had paid for.

Seems like a damn good reason to know how to turn your valves.

Maybe it's not that important so some....

 

[Northeastwrecks]

chrpai once bubbled...
Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
>>I check it before doing the entrance, and I do it again just below the surface when I do a bubble check with my buddy. The god damn valve is on and I'm sure as hell ain't shutting it off.

I am in awe to be online with the perfect one, who never makes a mistake or has a problem.

You don't need that gas anyways. Your dive planning should have provided more then ample gas from your alternate source.

My plan does. Its called doubles with an isolation manifold. You may have seen them. I also have a gas management plan and a buddy. So I do have more than ample gas from my alternate sources.

Regardless, we teach our students how to do the skill instead of teaching them how to compensate for their inability to perform it by wasting money on inappropriate equipment that provides nothing more than a false sense of security while sacrificing streamlining and increasing task loading.

Oh that's a real important reason.

It is if it increases the diver's stress level. Moreover, since your example was limited to an HP hose, I'll point out that you will have several minutes of gas remaining in the tank if an HP hose blows. Why waste it.

If thats what you want to believe. For the record my tank is positioned so that I can reach the valve. There just isn't any valid reason to do so.

If you say so.

I find it rather hypocritical that you argue against teaching the skill to single tank divers, then admit that you have found a need to manipulate your valves.

I guess that its just everyone else who doesn't need to know.

So what you're actually claiming is that valve manipulation is unnecessary for anyone but doubles divers and, of course, you.

If its an opinion, how can it be wrong?

Its based fundamental flaws in your reasoning. I can hold the opinion that the moon is made of green cheese. That doesn't mean I'm right. You're in the same boat.

I'll happily admit that, except for flow checks, valve manipulation isn't employed particularly often. However, as you've admitted, that doesn't mean that it isn't a useful skill, if for no other reason than to perform the flow check during your bubble check.

I'm glad that we have reached the conclusion that, as demonstrated by your own practices, valve manipulation is a skill that should be taught to single tank divers.

Thanks for your agreement.

 

[Big-t-2538]

chrpai once bubbled...


Weren't you taught how to breath a freeflowing reg while doing a CESA? If your reg is freeflowing, gas is low, and your buddy aint there to help you, might I suggest there is only one thing that should be on your mind?

The only time you're supposed to do a CESA is when you have no other option at all...so no, I wasn't taught how to breath of a free flowing reg during a CESA b/c I wouldn't have any air in a CESA...

Anyway...yes, my buddy ain't there...that's why I have to manage my own gas....did you ever think of the possibility that shutting off your reg can also hault the free flow and things will work "normal" after you open the valve back up? why waste gas due to a free flow if you don't have to?

You do know, that you can turn your gas back on right?

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
You do know, that you can turn your gas back on right?

Maybe that's the issue.

There's a really nice set of video clips on 5th D's website. I believe that they have a valve drill.

Mr. Painter, you should check it out. Andrew, GUE's training director, will demonstrate that valves turn both on and off. Just in case doubles would make it too complicated, there is even a nice video of a valve drill in singles.

So, along with you, I guess that makes at least two single tank divers who know how to perform a valve drill. And here you were trying to convince us that you were the only one who needed that skill.:boom:

 

[jbd]

your very own experience with a partially opened valve is sound enough reason to teach valve manipulation to single tank divers. This should be taught when a person learns to dive.

Keep in mind that I'm not bashing you with this next statement but just using your actual experience for demonstration purposes.

Had you known what the moving needle meant and been taught valve manipulation in your OW course, in less time than it took for you to establish the whole air sharing scenario so you could resolve the problem you could have and would have taken care of the problem. Why this is important is reflected in the fact that at the time this happened to you, your experience level was very low and that may well have been the case with the dive buddy. This sets the stage for the chain of small events that cascades into disaster which could have injured or killed one or both divers.

Certainly there is no guarantee that all would have ended so poorly but the fact is the risk level was greatly raised.

Again, I mean no insult to you just using the actual scenario to illustrate my point.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...

So, along with you, I guess that makes at least two single tank divers who know how to perform a valve drill. And here you were trying to convince us that you were the only one who needed that skill.:boom:

I didn't mean to be exclusive....I also believe that we aren't a rare breed of individuals in the "valve manipulation" sense...other than that, well, I'm pretty sure I'm a little odd.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
I didn't mean to be exclusive....I also believe that we aren't a rare breed of individuals in the "valve manipulation" sense...other than that, well, I'm pretty sure I'm a little odd.

I absolutely agree. But Mr. Painter ignores the fact that (1) he dives a single tank; and (2) he checks his valves after he is in the water.

Presumably, he would intend to do something about it if he found a problem. OTOH, since he doesn't believe that single tank divers need to know what to do if there is a problem with their valve, then he might just call the dive, take off his gear and stare morosely at his valve, wondering what to do.