DIR for recreational divers?

[FreeFloat]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...

In addition, it would come in handy if you had a free flow. Personally, once I started sharing with my buddy, I'd turn off the valve to conserve the gas and, depending on the circumstances, turn it back on to see if it was working again or if we needed the gas. Either way, it beats letting it vent into the ocean where it does no good for anyone.

Finally, if I did blow a hose, I'd also turn it off once I had secured a backup. Personally, I'd rather not listen to the noise.

:newbie:
Obviously I haven't had enough dives in to experience it, but with the advent of colder (still diveable) weather, I expect I may yet have my chance........

What are the chances of cold water causing a 1st stage free-flow, and how would i recognize it? What would be the optimum response? All I can think of right now would be to share my buddy's air, shut off my valve, and see if it gets any better when I reopen it - if not, then nice controlled ascent.

Or would the sharing of buddy's air more than likely put his reg into FF as well? (Let's not get into a discussion of "depends on which regs he's diving" - I mean statistical probability only.)

 

[cornfed]

chrpai once bubbled...
[BThats your opinion.
[/b]

Kinda like when you voiced your opinion, "No valve drill is needed for single tank recreational divers,"

>>In addition, it would come in handy if you had a free flow. Personally, once I started sharing with my buddy, I'd turn off the valve to conserve the gas

You don't need that gas anyways. Your dive planning should have provided more then ample gas from your alternate source.

It's not about "needing" the gas. It's about removing the cluster**** of a free flowing reg so your ascent (using the ample gas from your alternate source) isn't hampered by anything.

If its an opinion, how can it be wrong?

Well... umm... oh, never mind it's not worth explaining.

I think I liked you better before you restored you internet connection.

 

[detroit diver]

FreeFloat once bubbled...


:newbie:
Obviously I haven't had enough dives in to experience it, but with the advent of colder (still diveable) weather, I expect I may yet have my chance........

What are the chances of cold water causing a 1st stage free-flow, and how would i recognize it? What would be the optimum response? All I can think of right now would be to share my buddy's air, shut off my valve, and see if it gets any better when I reopen it - if not, then nice controlled ascent.

Or would the sharing of buddy's air more than likely put his reg into FF as well? (Let's not get into a discussion of "depends on which regs he's diving" - I mean statistical probability only.)

The colder the water, the greater the risk of a freeze-up.

With a free-flowing 1st stage, you will not be able to stop the flow of gas unless you shut off the valve. Shutting it off accomplishes three things:

1. Eliminates the noise distraction.
2. Saves the gas, because:
3. Sometimes the surrounding water will thaw the reg and allow you to turn it back on and breath from it normally.

Your response would be correct to take your buddy's reg. If it should freeflow also, the obvious move is to get to the surface while breathing the bubbles. If his/her gas runs out, you need to be ready to turn yours back on for the same purpose.

 

[FreeFloat]

detroit diver once bubbled...

Your response would be correct to take your buddy's reg. If it should freeflow also, the obvious move is to get to the surface while breathing the bubbles. If his/her gas runs out, you need to be ready to turn yours back on for the same purpose.

Thanks for the confirmation. Boy am I glad that freeflowing reg ascents were practiced (ad nauseum :spew: ) during our Open Water class, as were valve drills! It's all starting to make sense as to WHY, now!

 

[Warren_L]

Often times free flowing first stages are caused be drawing too much air too quickly in cold water enviornments. To help prevent this from happening, be conscious of not doing this. Relax and breathe normally - if you work too hard or do anything that increases your air consumption, this increases reg freeze-up risk. As you are descending to depth, periodically put air in your bc, not all at once when you reach your planned depth. Time your bc inflation not to co-incide with your breath. Make sure you move enough to allow adequate water flow through your reg to warm up the reg.

As well, if you have to switch to your buddy's alternate air, attempt to alternate breaths, as if you both draw at the same time, this would increase the risk of reg freeze-up on your buddy's reg.

 

[chrpai]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Here's a situation I had a couple of months ago.

My choice? I signaled air share to my buddy. I reached back and shut down my valve, depressurized the hose by purging, and THEN tightened the fitting. I then reached back and opened up my valve and the bubbles had stopped. Gave back my buddy's reg, and continued the dive.

Seems like a damn good reason to know how to turn your valves.

Seems like a sure way of having a good chance of getting water in your first stage. But I'm sure Mr know it all already knew that.

 

[chrpai]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
I find it rather hypocritical that you argue against teaching the skill to single tank divers, then admit that you have found a need to manipulate your valves.

When did I say I needed to manipulate a valve? I could have easily surface.


I'm glad that we have reached the conclusion that, as demonstrated by your own practices, valve manipulation is a skill that should be taught to single tank divers.

Thanks for your agreement. [/B]

I havn't agree **** with you buddy.

 

[ElectricZombie]

ScoobyPat once bubbled...
What I don't get that DIR is questioning the methods that are being taught on a more or less world-wide standard and basically dismissed them as being wrong.

Well, to be quite honest, the major agencies do an extremely poor job of training students. The techniques and methods they teach are wrong for the most part.

Why not 'make' it an agency that teaches students everything 'right' from the start and issue world-wide recognized c-cards, which could lead to a much broader acceptance and participation?

Simple...money. It is much more profitable to teach a student incorrectly multiple times rather than teach a student correctly once. It is also more profitable to convince a student that it is necessary for them to puchase multiple sets of gear and a vast array of useless diving gadgets. The agencies and dive shops are not stupid; it is all about the money. Teaching students proper dive skills would cause a great loss of income to those in the industry. GUE is working on an Open Water training agency.

Does DIR make sense for the average Joe that just wants to dive on a recreational basis or for the ultra serious tec diver and why?

DIR is great in that it works great regardless of if you are a recreational diver or a technical diver. Any diver can greatly benefit from the DIR principles and gear configuraiton. Those that say DIR is only for technical diving are misinformed. Many recreational divers choose to dive DIR. DIR works on a recreational single tank dive in the tropics, or a cave dive in doubles.

 

[chrpai]

http://www.baue.org/faq/valve_drills.html

Ok here are my two favorite quotes:

The most common "failure" on a single tank rig is actually failure to have the valve on in the first place.

In this case, the solution is obvious (besides the even more obvious answer of verifying that your gas is on before jumping in .... ) - turn your valve back on!


In the case of an actual failure (e.g., regulator failure), in a single tank you don't have very many options. Your only option is to first secure a new gas source. Once you have a new source, you simply reach back and shut down your valve. While this is not strictly necessary, the bubbles generated by a regulator/valve failure can cause a great deal of confusion, increasing the stress and task loading in a situation that is already stressful.





So San Diego DIR types freely admit that the really obvious solution is to make sure your gas is on, and if your 1st stage fails you should find another source of air and optionally shut the reg down. ( IE not strictly necessary. )


The only reason so many people are having a problem with what I'm saying is

1) DIR is never wrong ( supposedly )
2) DIR applies to all styles of diving unilaterally. (supposedly)

For the newbie diver, I would strongly looking for diving knowledge somewhere other then internet message boards.

 

[Dryglove]

I'll throw in my reason of why i like to be able to reach my valve on a single tank which im sure has been already covered

Some divemaster mistakenly shuts off your air seconds before you splash in. Yes it has happened to me.


Your valve is not turned on all the way and you find out half way through your dive


Your reg free flows. I was originally taught to secure a seperate air source and hold the reg above your head to eliminate all the confusion from the bubbles. To me its better to shut your air off and give your reg time to thaw in case your buddy's reg starts to freeflow while airsharing and you need the extra air during your ascent.


I am not DIR and think its a handy skill that any diver could use should the need arise.