Edmund Fitzgerald
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Yea, it's getting kinda bizzarre but it's totally applicable to wreck diving so I hope it's allowed to continue.
Tom
Tom
Those are real surprising opinions coming from avid wreck divers.
IMO there are reasons not to dive certain wrecks that have nothing to do with depth, conditions etc. How is your "right to dive anything on the bottom any more moral or correct than a survivors "right" to ask you not to dive it.
I know of no one asking people to not dive the Kamloops, Cedarville or the Carl D. for that matter. In fact i met one of the two survivors of the Carl D. in 98 in Port Huron, Frank Mays. He could care less if you dive the Bradley and this is a fact because i asked him. Not because i thought i would ever dive her but because i was curious how he felt about it.
I know people who would prefer that you not dive the Fitz. That is my point.
IMO there are reasons not to dive certain wrecks that have nothing to do with depth, conditions etc. How is your "right to dive anything on the bottom any more moral or correct than a survivors "right" to ask you not to dive it.
I know of no one asking people to not dive the Kamloops, Cedarville or the Carl D. for that matter. In fact i met one of the two survivors of the Carl D. in 98 in Port Huron, Frank Mays. He could care less if you dive the Bradley and this is a fact because i asked him. Not because i thought i would ever dive her but because i was curious how he felt about it.
I know people who would prefer that you not dive the Fitz. That is my point.
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We understand that point and at this time none of us are diving her. Our point, at least mine, is that legislation is not the proper way to get this done as its a short step from there to a ban on wreck diving.
Nobody is trying to disrespect the surviving families of the crew, we just feel it could set a bad precedent.
GP, yes, as I understand it there is a law prohibiting diving her.
Tom
Yup, as stated earlier, am in full agreement that legislation is not the answer. The last thing we need is to lose all wreck diving & there are those that would like to see that.
I am not one of them. Far from it, i would fight any legislation with that sole purpose tooth & nail.
Subject beaten to death, i'll shut up now.
I am not one of them. Far from it, i would fight any legislation with that sole purpose tooth & nail.
Subject beaten to death, i'll shut up now.
Nitrox Junkie
Great Lakes diver
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Most of the Crew from the Carl D. Bradley were from Roger City, MI. The Crew of the "Fitz" are as follows
McSorley, Ernest M.
Master
Toledo, OH
McCarthy, John H.
First Mate
Bay Village, OH
Pratt, James A.
Second Mate
Lakewood, OH
Armaghst, Michael E.
Third Mate
Iron River, WI
Holl, George J.
Chief Engineer
Cabot, PA
Bindon, Edward F.
First Asst. Engineer
Fairport Harbor, OH
Edwards, Thomas E.
Second Asst. Engineer
Oregon, OH
Haskell, Russell G.
Second Asst, Engineer
Millbury, OH
Champeau, Oliver J.
Third Asst. Engineer
Milwaukee, WI
Beetcher, Frederick J.
Porter
Superior, WI
Bentsen, Thomas
Oiler
St Joseph, MI
Borgeson, Thomas D.
AB Maintenance Man
Duluth, MN
Church, Nolan F.
Porter
Silver Bay, MN
Cundy, Ransom E.
Watchman
Superior, WI
Hudson, Bruce L.
Deckhand
N. Olmsted, OH
Kalmon, Allen G.
Second Cook
Washburn, WI
MacLellan, Gondon F.
Wiper
Clearwater, FL
Mazes, Joseph W.
Special Maintenance Man
Ashland, WI
O'Brien, Eugene W.
Wheelsman
St. Paul, MN
Peckol, Karl A.
Watchman
Ashtabula, OH
Poviach, John J.
Wheelsman
Bradenton, FL
Rafferty, Robert C.
Steward
Toledo, OH
Riippa, Paul M.
Deckhand
Ashtabula, OH
Simmons, John D.
Wheelsman
Ashland, WI
Spengler, William J.
Watchman
Toledo, OH
Thomas, Mark A.
Deckhand
Richmond Hts., OH
Walton, Ralph G.
Oiler
Fremont, OH
Weiss, David E.
Cadet (Deck)
Agoura, CA
Wilhelm, Blaine H.
Oiler
Moquah, WI
McSorley, Ernest M.
Master
Toledo, OH
McCarthy, John H.
First Mate
Bay Village, OH
Pratt, James A.
Second Mate
Lakewood, OH
Armaghst, Michael E.
Third Mate
Iron River, WI
Holl, George J.
Chief Engineer
Cabot, PA
Bindon, Edward F.
First Asst. Engineer
Fairport Harbor, OH
Edwards, Thomas E.
Second Asst. Engineer
Oregon, OH
Haskell, Russell G.
Second Asst, Engineer
Millbury, OH
Champeau, Oliver J.
Third Asst. Engineer
Milwaukee, WI
Beetcher, Frederick J.
Porter
Superior, WI
Bentsen, Thomas
Oiler
St Joseph, MI
Borgeson, Thomas D.
AB Maintenance Man
Duluth, MN
Church, Nolan F.
Porter
Silver Bay, MN
Cundy, Ransom E.
Watchman
Superior, WI
Hudson, Bruce L.
Deckhand
N. Olmsted, OH
Kalmon, Allen G.
Second Cook
Washburn, WI
MacLellan, Gondon F.
Wiper
Clearwater, FL
Mazes, Joseph W.
Special Maintenance Man
Ashland, WI
O'Brien, Eugene W.
Wheelsman
St. Paul, MN
Peckol, Karl A.
Watchman
Ashtabula, OH
Poviach, John J.
Wheelsman
Bradenton, FL
Rafferty, Robert C.
Steward
Toledo, OH
Riippa, Paul M.
Deckhand
Ashtabula, OH
Simmons, John D.
Wheelsman
Ashland, WI
Spengler, William J.
Watchman
Toledo, OH
Thomas, Mark A.
Deckhand
Richmond Hts., OH
Walton, Ralph G.
Oiler
Fremont, OH
Weiss, David E.
Cadet (Deck)
Agoura, CA
Wilhelm, Blaine H.
Oiler
Moquah, WI
P
pderk
Guest
I know its not the same as the Fitzgerald, but if anyone is interested in diving a BIG (644 feet) lake freighter, try the Roy Jodrey near Alexandria Bay NY. It went down in the early 70's. The bow is around 150-180 feet, and it drops to about 240 feet through the centre of the wreck. I have done the wreck twice (just the bow area) and it is awesome. I hope to go exploring further down the wreck but there is so much to see in the bow area I haven't pushed past there yet.
The Northern Tech Diver website has a picture of the wreck before it sank, it is very similar in appearance just a bit less than 100 feet shorter, and none of the crew died on it although a commercial diver was lost during a survey to determine if the ship could be salvaged.
www.northerntechdiver.com
Derk
The Northern Tech Diver website has a picture of the wreck before it sank, it is very similar in appearance just a bit less than 100 feet shorter, and none of the crew died on it although a commercial diver was lost during a survey to determine if the ship could be salvaged.
www.northerntechdiver.com
Derk
Lost Yooper
Guest
Efforts are ongoing to prohibit diving on all wrecks in the Great Lakes (particularly in US waters) for the reasons being discussed. The whole Fitz thing just got it all started. The number of people who died on it is relatively small campared to many shipwrecks on the Great Lakes.
Mike
Mike
If we let "them" they will outlaw everything except paying taxes! I have dived the Lady Elgin which was one of the Great Lakes worst as far as loss of life (something like 380 people).
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