Failure of Wireless Air Integrated COmputer and SPG

[loosebits]

To that, I would say, "How many divers have died from mis-reading analog gauges, or making a mathematical mistake in their dive planning?".

It turns out that humans are faster at reading analog gauges vs digital. The exception being a clock because actual math is involved (multiply what the long hand says by 5). That's why even in today's digital cockpits, graphical displays of analog gauges are still used vs a simple number.

As far as a mathematical mistake (e.g. how much air do I (and my buddy) need to get to the surface), I am sure that's a common problem but I don't think the solution is to replace the brain with a computer - the solution is to upgrade the brain. As I pointed out in another thread, the readout of mins remaining before you must begin your ascent on most AI computers *DOES NOT* include what your buddy would need should he rupture an LP hose or blow an o-ring. I fear that these computers tend to make us stop thinking about real dive planning and we end up just relying on what the computer tells us without thinking of scenarios like the one I just mentioned.

 

[Matsya]

It turns out that humans are faster at reading analog gauges vs digital. The exception being a clock because actual math is involved (multiply what the long hand says by 5). That's why even in today's digital cockpits, graphical displays of analog gauges are still used vs a simple number.

As far as a mathematical mistake (e.g. how much air do I (and my buddy) need to get to the surface), I am sure that's a common problem but I don't think the solution is to replace the brain with a computer - the solution is to upgrade the brain. As I pointed out in another thread, the readout of mins remaining before you must begin your ascent on most AI computers *DOES NOT* include what your buddy would need should he rupture an LP hose or blow an o-ring. I fear that these computers tend to make us stop thinking about real dive planning and we end up just relying on what the computer tells us without thinking of scenarios like the one I just mentioned.

Loosebits I really do not understand what you are trying to say here. If you mean that, say, when my dive computer tells me that I have 5 minutes left (which in most AI computers takes into account the ascent time and safety stop requirements) and my buddy has a ruptured hose or blows an o-ring we have a problem, I agree but what does that have to do with the computer? The situation would be the same if I had an SPG and had pushed my air time or equivalent pressure and an emergency occurred.

I agree with you that we certainly should not replace the brain with the computer.
Your mention of cockpits made me think of the analogy of an automatic pilot. Having an automatic pilot does not mean that the human pilot can fly like an automaton. I think a similar logic can be applied to all instruments. They are only tools to be used appropriately without ever allowing the brain to stop fuctioning.

 

[loosebits]

Loosebits I really do not understand what you are trying to say here. If you mean that, say, when my dive computer tells me that I have 5 minutes left (which in most AI computers takes into account the ascent time and safety stop requirements) and my buddy has a ruptured hose or blows an o-ring we have a problem, I agree but what does that have to do with the computer? The situation would be the same if I had an SPG and had pushed my air time or equivalent pressure and an emergency occurred.

I just worry with the computer telling me I have 20 mins left, I'd just take its word for it. With my spg telling me I has 1200 psi left, I am forced to go through the process of deciding if this is enough pressure to safely continue the dive or do I need to thumb it. Perhaps by going through that process, I'll remember I had a buddy also but the AI computer doesn't make me go through that process. It encourages you just to do what it says.

We've already dumbed down diving too much already. I don't know how many times I've been on a boat (or even a cave!!) and I've seen some diver who doesn't know even the most basic operations of their computers. Do you think those divers (if they had AI computers) realized that if they are at 90' and their buddy has their same breathing rate, the need to start their ascent when their computer says 6 mins, not 0 (3 to ascend, 3 on a safety stop)? At least with an SPG they need to go through that process of figuring out how much air they need to get to the surface and maybe while they are going through this process, perhaps they will consider their buddy anyway.

Tell me,
I agree with you that we certainly should not replace the brain with the computer.
Your mention of cockpits made me think of the analogy of an automatic pilot. Having an automatic pilot does not mean that the human pilot can fly like an automaton. I think a similar logic can be applied to all instruments. They are only tools to be used appropriately without ever allowing the brain to stop fuctioning.

Do you think pilots or OW divers are more prepared for the challenges of the activity? I trust a pilot flying on automatic to know how to land the plane without it. I don't trust a diver with an AI computer to know his buddy's SAC, how to calculate a SAC, how to determine based on his buddys SAC how many mins it should read on his computer before he ascends based on the planned max depth, etc. Very few OW divers even know what rock-bottom gas planning is much less how to calculate it. I was never introduced to the term in OW diving (gas planning after OW - get back on the boat with 500 psi) but because I was forced to figure out how much air I needed to get up from X number of feet it dawned on me that maybe I should at least double that for my buddy (later with the dawn of scubaboard, I discovered this was called rock-bottom).

 

[Matsya]

Loosebits, I am in agreement with all aspects of "dumbing down" as you call it.
But in all the situations you have pointed out, it seems to me that they have more to do with diver ignorance rather than the computer itself.

The computer not only shows Remaining Air Time but also pressure. Not only does it say you have "20 minutes of air time" but it also shows your "1200 psi left". So you can go through the same process that you would go through if you are using an SPG.

Why would you trust a diver with an SPG to know his buddy's SAC or how to calculate a SAC but not a diver with a computer? I fail to see the logic here.

I agree with you that gas planning is not even mentioned in OW or for that matter AOW. As you have said, I am learning more about it diving and in ScubaBoard and it is helping me in using my COMPUTER more effectively.

 

[pakman]

Using HID lights can also cause failure of the wireless link. This is acknowledged by some of the manufacturers.

Interesting, I use both a 21W HID and various u/w camera strobes and haven't had any problems from my Suunto Vytec transmitter (about 80-90 dives on it now). have only noticed a lost link a few times (less than a handful) but it resyncs pretty quickly.

 

[TheRedHead]

I just worry with the computer telling me I have 20 mins left, I'd just take its word for it. With my spg telling me I has 1200 psi left, I am forced to go through the process of deciding if this is enough pressure to safely continue the dive or do I need to thumb it. Perhaps by going through that process, I'll remember I had a buddy also but the AI computer doesn't make me go through that process. It encourages you just to do what it says.

People don't think about that even if they don't have an air integrated computer. I dive with a Suunto Cobra which is air integrated (but not hoseless) and I never look at that "feature." It's not accurate anyway because it bases it assumptions on your air consumption of the past 5 minutes and can't take into account any decreae/increase in depth.

 

[pakman]

I agree with Red... I just ignore the time left on my vytec...

 

[Diver Dennis]

I noticed there are some people that have had SPG failures in the poll. I'd like to hear how and when they failed. Just curious.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I'm with Red on this one too. I never pay attention to it.

 

[loosebits]

People don't think about that even if they don't have an air integrated computer.

I do.