Farnsworth Banks accident last weekend?
- Thread starter dytis-sm
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I rarely have air in my bcd either but definitely don't have any left by the time reach safety stop. Is there some reason the diver in question would have had?
Randar
Registered
Just guessing - Over weighted?
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I do like to finish a couple of pound negative so I can get down if I feel the need, so I'd add that much air for a SS - not much, but a bit.
Mistakes and misjudgments are always possible, so good guess anyway.
I know that idea gets around, but an emergency ascent is much more appealing to me than a breath or two maybe possible that way.
That's the best guess, to me.
Ouch, still...!!
One alone?! Scary. I like my PLB & dive canister.
markmud
Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.
Hello ChillyinCanada,
Your question is one of many that I have, like why did the diver not donate his sinkers, or BCD (if integrated), to Davey Jones' Locker. It is reported that they were at safety stop depth.
We will probably never know the answer to those questions.
I dived off Vision two weeks ago; the crew is excellent.
My condolences to family members, friends, diving companions, and the crew of Vision.
Same for the other people involved in SoCal diving incidents last weekend.
markm
uwxplorer
Contributor
I recently lost a friend to a diving accident (briefly mentioned on another thread on this forum) and this has deeply changed my mind about assessing this kind of tragic events.
Unfortunately, it seems, we are ALL capable of judgment lapses and this, unfortunately, can lead to a chain of events that can have fatal consequences.
That such a tragic outcome could occur in apparently close to perfect conditions at Farnsworth Bank is shocking, but not unheard of. And I suspect that there have been many close calls in similar situations that have never been reported here.
Excluding a medical condition or some other freak event of nature which we don't know of yet, a lesson that may be drawn from it, is that each dive should be treated as a training dive: we should be aware of our environment , always listening to our body, checking our equipment, and take mental note of whatever problem we are not dealing with satisfactorily this time, in order to improve our skills for next time. In essence, learn what we don't know we don't know, as Rumsfeld once put it so eloquently.
The quoted experience of the victim is, if I recall correctly, the proverbial danger zone: if you never had a close call up to then, comfort and sloppiness can set in, and when a problem occurs (possibly due to a rooky mistake - a rooky that the diver is not anymore - say, forget to check your gauge), there is no learned and rehearsed reflex that kicks in. And sometimes, anyway, it is just too late.
It's all to easy to get deep at Farnsworth, especially if conditions are great. It's a gentle slope, everything is amazingly beautiful, you may get narked and turn around the pinnacle, loosing track of the anchor line.
When the "oops I am low on air!" moment occurs, you start going up, but the more you go up, the farther from the surface you realize you are, the more stressed you get, the heavier your breathing, the faster the gauge needle goes down, and on and on. By then any mistake (such as, as suggested, pressing on the wrong button of the BC inflator) can be dangerous, even fatal.
Paradoxically, I suspect that this accident may well not have happened in terrible conditions (as they can sometimes be on this exposed site). The two buddies would have been stressed right at the onset of the dive and would not have wandered off too far from the anchor line, or too deep, or for too long.
So, of course, we can ask natural questions:
Why did TWO divers run low on air?
Why did they not use the rule of third?
Why did they not make a controlled ascent rather than doing a safety stop while low on air (did they have deco obligations and got unsure of what to do?).
Let's not judge the diver, lest we are sure we would have fared better in comparable situations for our own level of training as well as mental and physical state.
I can't start to imagine how the family and friends are coping with their loss and my deepest sympathy go to them in this terrible moment.
Unfortunately, it seems, we are ALL capable of judgment lapses and this, unfortunately, can lead to a chain of events that can have fatal consequences.
That such a tragic outcome could occur in apparently close to perfect conditions at Farnsworth Bank is shocking, but not unheard of. And I suspect that there have been many close calls in similar situations that have never been reported here.
Excluding a medical condition or some other freak event of nature which we don't know of yet, a lesson that may be drawn from it, is that each dive should be treated as a training dive: we should be aware of our environment , always listening to our body, checking our equipment, and take mental note of whatever problem we are not dealing with satisfactorily this time, in order to improve our skills for next time. In essence, learn what we don't know we don't know, as Rumsfeld once put it so eloquently.
The quoted experience of the victim is, if I recall correctly, the proverbial danger zone: if you never had a close call up to then, comfort and sloppiness can set in, and when a problem occurs (possibly due to a rooky mistake - a rooky that the diver is not anymore - say, forget to check your gauge), there is no learned and rehearsed reflex that kicks in. And sometimes, anyway, it is just too late.
It's all to easy to get deep at Farnsworth, especially if conditions are great. It's a gentle slope, everything is amazingly beautiful, you may get narked and turn around the pinnacle, loosing track of the anchor line.
When the "oops I am low on air!" moment occurs, you start going up, but the more you go up, the farther from the surface you realize you are, the more stressed you get, the heavier your breathing, the faster the gauge needle goes down, and on and on. By then any mistake (such as, as suggested, pressing on the wrong button of the BC inflator) can be dangerous, even fatal.
Paradoxically, I suspect that this accident may well not have happened in terrible conditions (as they can sometimes be on this exposed site). The two buddies would have been stressed right at the onset of the dive and would not have wandered off too far from the anchor line, or too deep, or for too long.
So, of course, we can ask natural questions:
Why did TWO divers run low on air?
Why did they not use the rule of third?
Why did they not make a controlled ascent rather than doing a safety stop while low on air (did they have deco obligations and got unsure of what to do?).
Let's not judge the diver, lest we are sure we would have fared better in comparable situations for our own level of training as well as mental and physical state.
I can't start to imagine how the family and friends are coping with their loss and my deepest sympathy go to them in this terrible moment.
Randar
Registered
So, I can comment on a few of UWxplorer's points:
> Quoted experience level is not in the proverbial danger zone (According to statistical data that zone is between 5-20 dives) But, I agree with your points regarding "Comfort and sloppiness" that does definitely come in to play at the 100 or so dives range.
> This was not an issue of "too deep" or OOA or 1/3 rules. Diver and his buddy left the bottom with 1200 +/- PSI. Someone else who investigated this may have "Actual Numbers" but it was in that range according to the buddy who ran out.
> No Deco obligation that I am aware of. The only part of their "planned" dive that went awry was not coming up the anchor line.
> I am not sure what their "Pressure readings" were at their safety stop, so I cannot answer why the buddy went OOA. The buddy left the safety stop to "get a fix/heading" to the boat. When he returned, the other diver was at 30+ feet and descending with air venting from his BC. It was at this point the surviving diver went OOA and surfaced in a panic. Because of the quick and concise reaction of the Boat crew, we were able to recover the OOA diver quickly and get a safety diver in the water to begin searching.
I too still have questions as to why, if descending and not in control, the deceased diver did not ditch all of his weight systems. To me this seems like the logical solution and is "Over emphasized" in all of our classes - He would have know this solution for sure.
As a former Naval Aviation guy - We have rules that address this type of thing in the Air. "If out of control passing 10,000 feet - Eject" (Dealing with Millions of $$$'s worth of equipment) Same should be taught during Open/AOW and Rescue. "If out of control at or near the surface ditch all weights" (We are talking about a few Hundred dollars MAX) Simple.
> Quoted experience level is not in the proverbial danger zone (According to statistical data that zone is between 5-20 dives) But, I agree with your points regarding "Comfort and sloppiness" that does definitely come in to play at the 100 or so dives range.
> This was not an issue of "too deep" or OOA or 1/3 rules. Diver and his buddy left the bottom with 1200 +/- PSI. Someone else who investigated this may have "Actual Numbers" but it was in that range according to the buddy who ran out.
> No Deco obligation that I am aware of. The only part of their "planned" dive that went awry was not coming up the anchor line.
> I am not sure what their "Pressure readings" were at their safety stop, so I cannot answer why the buddy went OOA. The buddy left the safety stop to "get a fix/heading" to the boat. When he returned, the other diver was at 30+ feet and descending with air venting from his BC. It was at this point the surviving diver went OOA and surfaced in a panic. Because of the quick and concise reaction of the Boat crew, we were able to recover the OOA diver quickly and get a safety diver in the water to begin searching.
I too still have questions as to why, if descending and not in control, the deceased diver did not ditch all of his weight systems. To me this seems like the logical solution and is "Over emphasized" in all of our classes - He would have know this solution for sure.
As a former Naval Aviation guy - We have rules that address this type of thing in the Air. "If out of control passing 10,000 feet - Eject" (Dealing with Millions of $$$'s worth of equipment) Same should be taught during Open/AOW and Rescue. "If out of control at or near the surface ditch all weights" (We are talking about a few Hundred dollars MAX) Simple.
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Drop your lead and you won't be dead was something we heard many times in the early 70's.
Saw this happen twice. Diver's a bit embarrassed-but alive.
Saw this happen twice. Diver's a bit embarrassed-but alive.
OP
dytis-sm
Contributor
I was tempted to add to speculations but could not help comment on the discussion about the gas management rule of two thirds. To me I think it is a myth for recreational divers. Most divers will not start ascending until 700 psi, the default "Zero" remaining time for most air-intergrated dive computers (like my Suunot D6i). I have yet to see a diver start ascending at 1000 psi which is what the rule of thirds would indicate. And of course in this case it appears that something went wrong went both buddies were too low in air to help each other... That is probably the only speculation and I am sorry to see this rule come to prove that it is right, in other words having adequate air in an emergency during ascent.
This was a very unfortunate accident and I am very sorry about the victim and his buddy who probably feels very guilty under the circumstances.
This was a very unfortunate accident and I am very sorry about the victim and his buddy who probably feels very guilty under the circumstances.
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