First BC - Jacket or Wing

[ew1usnr]

I also realize you have to justify your less than optimum gear choice (at least to yourself), so this thread is at an end. MD

Am I justifyng a jacket, or are you justifying your wings? I think that you missed the point. I HAVE both wings and a jacket. They are both OK and I don't plan on getting rid of either. For swimming along the bottom while looking for sharks teeth at Venice Beach, the wings are great. It gets the inflator bag behind me and out of the way and I am swimming in a horizontal plane. For doing spins and rolls the jacket just has a lot less flapping around.

 

[diverbrian]

Am I justifyng a jacket, or are you justifying your wings? I think that you missed the point. I HAVE both wings and a jacket. They are both OK and I don't plan on getting rid of either. For swimming along the bottom while looking for sharks teeth at Venice Beach, the wings are great. It gets the inflator bag behind me and out of the way and I am swimming in a horizontal plane. For doing spins and rolls the jacket just has a lot less flapping around.

As another owner of BP&W's who is neutral and the owner of Seaquest ProQD+ that I use for tropical diving and classes, I will say try both and make up your own mind. I won't be without my DiveRite BP and wings when I am doing deep dives with my doubles. Unfortunately, that is all that it is set up for and I own the poodle jacket and (cardinal sin of all) I happen to like the jacket for single tank diving. I haven't felt the reason to try out a single tank set-up with a back plate. I won't justify why I like it, I just find it comfortable for me. That is what is important.

If you know right of the shot that you are going into deep wrecks (I had trouble with open waters and never dreamed that I would see about 1000 percent improvement after the instructor quit watching me. I went with the more tropical BC.), I would seriously consider the backplate and wings set-up. But, you should consider the other types of BC's as they may or may not work better for you. The two instructors that I dive with/ hang-with/ assist most often have even gone to a large single tank with a two-reg set-up and conventional BC's. The one uses a back-inflate and the other uses a jacket.

 

[FreeFloat]

For doing spins and rolls the jacket just has a lot less flapping around.

What exactly happens to a BP/wing setup when the diver does a 360° barrel roll?

 

[chrisch]

One point no-one noticed. The Halycon is a DIR wing - as such a first class bit of kit and correct for that style of diving. However, since the open water course requires removal and replacement of the scuba unit underwater this wing CANNOT be used for training.
Whatever you think of DIR and its "rules" it is a system that starts when you have qualified elsewhere. I am fairly neutral about it, but I think you need some experience before you start on the DIR route.
I think I would start off with a basic stab, ideally secondhand and then see how I got on. Many people prefer wings - me too - but as many other have said try them first. Do not buy loads of expensive gear now - I guarantee you will change your mind and the more advice you get the more confused you get and the more likley you are to change your mind......

Welcome to the sport.

Chris

 

[ew1usnr]

What exactly happens to a BP/wing setup when the diver does a 360° barrel roll?

Think about a diver making a roll to the right while wearing wings.
1. At 90-degrees all the air flows to the left wing.
2. At 180-degrees (on your back) part of the air will flow back to the right.
3. At 270-degrees all the air is in the right wing.
4. At 360-degrees part of the air flows back to the left.

That is a lot of air shifting back and forth.

A stab-jacket is like having an inner-tube with a bubble of air in it. You can rotate the inner-tube 360-degrees and the bubble of air stays in the same place the whole time. The air is not shifting from side to side and back again.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I am kind of middle of the road. I dove a standard hard pack and strap equipped back inflate (a precurser to the modern BP and wing) when I started diving. The 2" nylon straps can be a be a bit uncomfortable and can make donning and doffing the gear more difficult underwater unless you add a buckle to the left shoulder strap (a possible option during OW training that willonly cost you another 10 ft of webbing and a wweight belt buckle.) I have found a well designed harness does make hiking a set of doubles much more comfortable and is generally more comfortable in the water.

So I currently dive a backplate equipped Genesis Recon, a tech oriented back inflate BC, to get the benefits of both. However given the availability of the OMS comfort harness and the Dive Rite Transplate harness, the next purchase will be one of these two as it will accomplish the same thing as the Recon and backplate for a lot less money.

I dove a Scubapro stabilizing jacket for about a decade starting in the mid-80's and it is an exceptionally stable BC in any position as the air is free to move around the BC without collecting anywhere. It was a big improvement over my original SP back inflate and over a Watergill AtPak that I used for a while. However I have found that my Recon is nearly as stable as the SP jacket during unusual attitudes.

I personally think this has to do with the bungee system restricting some of the air movement and keeping the bubble closer to center during a roll. Also when used with doubles the Recon's wing, though relatively large at 75lbs, is well supported between the backplate and tanks and you don't get any of the taco effect that can occur when a large non-bungeed wing is used with a single tank. The air in the Recon's wing moves, but moves smoothly and evenly through the wing as the wing remains more or less straight through the maneuver. I think this would be the case with any properly sized BP and wing that is properly matched to the single or double tanks with which it is used.

I think some of the stability concerns with a BP and wing may stem from using a relatively large un-bungeed wing with a single tank. The inevitable taco effect causes the wing to shift vertically in the water as you roll which creates a substantial shift in your center of bouyancy. The bend in the wing also causes the air to surge from side to side rather than flow smoothly as the roll progresses. So I think for stability purposes:

1) A properly sized wing matched to either your single OR double tanks (but not both) is critical and,

2) Love 'em or not, bungees can help eliminate the unneeded volume in the wing and hold the air closer to the center during maneuvers under water and consequently can improve stability on a large wing.

 

[ronrosa]

One point no-one noticed. The Halycon is a DIR wing - as such a first class bit of kit and correct for that style of diving. However, since the open water course requires removal and replacement of the scuba unit underwater this wing CANNOT be used for training.
Chris

This may be a stupid question, but what is the problem with removing a Halcyon wing under water ? I've never dove a BP/wing.

 

[WillAbbott]

This may be a stupid question, but what is the problem with removing a Halcyon wing under water ? I've never dove a BP/wing.

There is absolutely no problem, it maybe a bit different proceedure, but a BP/Wing comes off a LOT faster than a jacket, durring our Rescue class we did a pool refresher, and under water my BP/wings came off faster than anyones Jacket... getting it back on took a bit longer, but it was the first time I had done it in deep enough water to not float away.. and I still did a good job.

 

[TechBlue]

The removal and replacement of equipment underwater is merely to establish comfort level. There are few if any reasons for removing your equipment underwater, regardless obviously it can be done just as easily with a BP. This is the advantage of owning your own equipment, you should be familiar with it and know where evrythimg goes with your eyes closed.

 

[ronrosa]

I've had to remove my BC underwater in order to tighten a loose cam strap. I frequently see loose cam straps that require tightening underwater. Most times the buddy tightens it, but it's good to be able to do it yourself if necessary.