Good Rec (Maybe Tech) BP/W

[Splitlip]

I do agree DSS is a high quality produce. But I do found your reply biased, many points are inaccurate. I have 3 wings now, Oxycheq, DSS, Halcyon, one each. Here is what I have to say.



This isn't true. DSS 22u vs Oxycheq 26.5u.



It is hard to say which is toughtest. But based on the outter shell thickness, Oxycheq Signature V fees tougher but less flexible. Oxy wing retains it shape better even when the wing is empty. Not for DSS
Fast draining mesh at the bottom vs. grommets.



All three of my wing has SS grommet. I use my Oxycheq the most, no sign of corrosion after 2 years.
The DSS OPV is much better that the (sourced from ???) that everyone else uses. The ones that were all recalled for bad springs. I put a DSS OPV on my Oxycheq.



This is BS. I haven't encount any SS buckle that gives me problem, including no brand plain SS buckle from DGX.



This is also inaccurate. I would say DSS wing's cut is more inline with H, HOG. They all can be folded flat. Oxycheq has a very different cut, more 3D. It cannot be folded flat. And because of Oxycheq's special cut, it is the most streamline wing. But I also suspect it may not be the easiest to vent.
The inner bladder of my DSS wings is properly sized to the outer shell. My Oxycheq seems to be a 55 lb. bladder stuffed inside of a 40 lb. shell. There are other posts here describing the same.



DSS, Dive Rite, HOG are about the same flatness. OMS and H have higher degree of band. This is strictly a personal preference. Flatter plate put the tank closer to one's body. I found it is abit too close. My head hit 1st stage. I much prefer a steep band of my OMS over my DiveRite



So as HOG and Oxycheq. I do agree that DSS mounting mechanism is better than other that I have.
DSS plates come in a few different lengths, and the have the molded in rubber pieces which mean you don't need to use tri-glides to lock in your webbing adjustment.



So as many other. The only over stiff crotch strap is from DiveRite.


Again, I do agree DSS makes high quality product. I have no problem recommanding it. But to say DSS is the king, others are crap is a unfair statement.

To me DSS's advantages over other are these:
1)Tobin's knowledge, support and service
2)Different size backplate if that is what you need.
3)ability to add weight on to the plate, especially if you dive in cold water.
4)the wing attachement mechanism allow you to take wing off without rethreading tank band when not using STA

Thanks. You pretty much covered it for me. My computer farted and I lost my post.

The plates with a deeper profile allow me to carry my DSMB between the plate and my back. the flatter profile plates I need to carry my DSMB under the plate. That's about it.

 

[USVet96]

I need to know:

Height and weight

Most buoyant exposure suit

Cylinders used

Before I can make a recommendation for a specific size plate, plate material and wing capacity.

If you prefer call me at 626-799-5074 M-F 9-5 So Cal Time.

Tobin

Tobin:

Sorry for the delayed response. Here are the questions you asked:

Height - 5'6

Weight - 155 - 165lbs (lean build with bigger legs - 31/30 Pants - 31/32 waist)

Exposure Suit - Skin or 1 mil (summer) - Maybe a 3 mil (or 5) in Winter
(South Florida diving - Tropical most of the time)
(Probably will NOT be doing Cold Water diving at all - very few of any)

Cylinders - Usually rental tanks so mostly AL80 (will buy a tank someday)

Weight - Currently use either 6 or 8lbs (3+3 or 4+4) plus 2lbs tank (1+1) trim
(would like to maybe eliminate weight pockets altogether maybe with a SS plate)

Thanks for the help and let me know what else you need Sir

USVet

 

[USVet96]

Ya know Vet, you can purchase a one piece harness really economically. 12 or 14 ft of 2 inch webbing. If you have issues, cut it and install a buckle on the shoulder. If that does not work, then you can invest the big bucks. You're in Miami. So you'll go from a rash guard to a 3 mil, maybe a 5 mil. I really think you'll be fine in a single 1 piece HOG harness. Don't focus on buying gadgetry. (tough, I know.)

Lol. I hear ya on the gadgetry. So you think a basic 1 piece harness like a HOG or OMS might be best? What type and brand plate then? I'm thinking I might try to eliminate some weight as well with the SS plate so that's an option as well.

So gotta lot of researching to do to find the right rig setup.

And with this being an intro into the BP/W arena for me, I would love to find something that works, fits good, and is very economical. THEN, I can grow into a more complicated setup if needed. So I won't be too upset about the initial investment if it doesn't hurt too much in the pocket lol.

Gonna try to search for an affordable single piece harness setup with either an AL plate and weight pockets, or SS plate and no pockets, with a small single tank bladder for now.

USVet

 

[Shark Bait!]

I dive a DSS kydex plate w/ 20# wing. Since I use steel 100s, I don't need any additional weight with up to a 3 mil (don't have a 5mil, so not sure if I would need add weight) When I leave the country and only have the option of a AL80, I either place 2 XS weight pockets on the upper cam bands and place 3# in each or use a SS plate and not need any additional weight.

 

[eelnoraa]

Lol. I hear ya on the gadgetry. So you think a basic 1 piece harness like a HOG or OMS might be best? What type and brand plate then? I'm thinking I might try to eliminate some weight as well with the SS plate so that's an option as well.

So gotta lot of researching to do to find the right rig setup.

And with this being an intro into the BP/W arena for me, I would love to find something that works, fits good, and is very economical. THEN, I can grow into a more complicated setup if needed. So I won't be too upset about the initial investment if it doesn't hurt too much in the pocket lol.

Gonna try to search for an affordable single piece harness setup with either an AL plate and weight pockets, or SS plate and no pockets, with a small single tank bladder for now.

USVet

This is intended for Splitlip and Tobin, so I hope they don't mind I jump in for a few comments.

First, yes, one piece webbing harness is better than those fancy comfort harnesses. I started with Dive Rite transplate myself. For a long time, I hasitated to switch to one piece harness until I was forced to do so for my GUE fundie. Now if you want me to switch back, you need to pay me good money to do so. A properly adjusted one piece webbing will be more comfortable in water, more securely fasten on your body. The only downside is not as comfortable if you have to take a long hike on land. The only harness to avoid is the DiveRite basic harness. The webbing they chose is overly soft and floppy. I just swap it with some stiffer webbing myself.

As for plate, it really doesn't matter which brand it is. First design what material based on your weighting requirement. Tobin is definitely one of the best person to get advices from. But looking at your info, I would say a AL or Kydex plate will work better for you. With SS, you may not have any ditchable weight with AL80, so with steel tank, you may be over weighted.

Then design how much bend you want for the plate . I found I prefer steeper bend plate so that the tank is further away from my back, so 1st stage won't hit my head. So DSS and DiveRite dont work for me as well as OMS or Halcyon. But this very personal. You have to decide for yourself.

 

[Splitlip]

Lol. I hear ya on the gadgetry. So you think a basic 1 piece harness like a HOG or OMS might be best? What type and brand plate then? I'm thinking I might try to eliminate some weight as well with the SS plate so that's an option as well.

So gotta lot of researching to do to find the right rig setup.

And with this being an intro into the BP/W arena for me, I would love to find something that works, fits good, and is very economical. THEN, I can grow into a more complicated setup if needed. So I won't be too upset about the initial investment if it doesn't hurt too much in the pocket lol.

Gonna try to search for an affordable single piece harness setup with either an AL plate and weight pockets, or SS plate and no pockets, with a small single tank bladder for now.

USVet

If you are diving aluminum tanks, the steel plate will offset the positive buoyancy of an empty aluminum tank. I dive steel tanks, so I use in aluminum plate in the summer with my half mil or 1 mil suits. In the winter, I switch over to a steel plate to offset the heavier exposure protection.

Check this out. And Scubaboard members get a 10% discount.

BackPlate and Wing Package discounts on sale Dive Rite

 

[Blue Sparkle]

But looking at your info, I would say a AL or Kydex plate will work better for you. With SS, you may not have any ditchable weight with AL80, so with steel tank, you may be over weighted.

I'm not seeing it that way, although maybe I'm missing something (?). The OP said he is setting up the rig for his typical diving, which is warm water and aluminum tanks, with no or minimal exposure protection. He said he is using 8-10# of weight now. If the average plate is about 6# negative (and let's say 2 of his 8-10# was to offset a buoyant BC), then he will need 6-8# with the bp/w. If the stainless bp is 5-6#, then he will probably have 1-2# on a belt or elsewhere. Doesn't that seem good? I don't see the advantage or need to have a lighter rig and more weight on a belt (unless it is for trim reasons).

I understand the importance of a balanced rig, but in this case what would be the danger of no, or minimal, ditchable weight? I mean, swimming up a full tank (say wing failure just as you get to depth), doesn't seem like it would be a problem in this particular case, does it?

If the OP went to a 5mm suit and had to add weight to compensate for that buoyancy, then it would/could be on a belt, so would be ditchable.

I dive a similar rig myself in tropical waters (stainless plate/AL tank/17-18# wing/skin or 3mm) and I dive with 6# on the rig (4# plate plus trim weights on tank), and 2# on a belt (or more if I'm wearing a wetsuit). Am I doing something dangerous? I've thought it felt quite "tidy" to have the stainless plate and less "extra" weight.


Blue Sparkle

 

[Splitlip]

This is intended for Splitlip and Tobin, so I hope they don't mind I jump in for a few comments.

First, yes, one piece webbing harness is better than those fancy comfort harnesses. I started with Dive Rite transplate myself. For a long time, I hasitated to switch to one piece harness until I was forced to do so for my GUE fundie. Now if you want me to switch back, you need to pay me good money to do so. A properly adjusted one piece webbing will be more comfortable in water, more securely fasten on your body. The only downside is not as comfortable if you have to take a long hike on land. The only harness to avoid is the DiveRite basic harness. The webbing they chose is overly soft and floppy. I just swap it with some stiffer webbing myself.

As for plate, it really doesn't matter which brand it is. First design what material based on your weighting requirement. Tobin is definitely one of the best person to get advices from. But looking at your info, I would say a AL or Kydex plate will work better for you. With SS, you may not have any ditchable weight with AL80, so with steel tank, you may be over weighted.

Then design how much bend you want for the plate . I found I prefer steeper bend plate so that the tank is further away from my back, so 1st stage won't hit my head. So DSS and DiveRite dont work for me as well as OMS or Halcyon. But this very personal. You have to decide for yourself.

All true. I prefer a a steeper bend as well, because I store my DSMB between my plate and back. I drilled a DiveRite aluminum plate to mate with a halcyon MC storage pack. The 4.5 ft Halcyon DAM fits ok, but I can definitely feel the OPV and nipple. I sold my DR steel plate and purchased a scubapro one which is the same as Halcyon.

Yes, the DR webbing is very soft. You want stiff for the shoulders and soft for the crotch. I've the DR webbing on one of my rigs. As part of pre-dive routine, my buddy has to unfold/unroll my shoulder straps after I slide into them. ( I can do it myself once in the water.) I've had the webbing for 5 or 6 years, so eventually, I'll replace it.

And US Vet, for all intents and purposes I have no ditchible weight. But that is my choice. I have to put all my weight high on the rig ( plates and steel tank) to keep horizontal when not finning. Just my body I guess. See eelnoraa's comment. Keep it mind. Depending on my exposure protection I might add a couple pounds on a belt to help me keep a 40 or 50 # DSMB standing up with a near empty cylinder at safety stop.

 

[Splitlip]

I'm not seeing it that way, although maybe I'm missing something (?). The OP said he is setting up the rig for his typical diving, which is warm water and aluminum tanks, with no or minimal exposure protection. He said he is using 8-10# of weight now. If the average plate is about 6# negative (and let's say 2 of his 8-10# was to offset a buoyant BC), then he will need 6-8# with the bp/w. If the stainless bp is 5-6#, then he will probably have 1-2# on a belt or elsewhere. Doesn't that seem good? I don't see the advantage or need to have a lighter rig and more weight on a belt (unless it is for trim reasons).

I understand the importance of a balanced rig, but in this case what would be the danger of no, or minimal, ditchable weight? I mean, swimming up a full tank (say wing failure just as you get to depth), doesn't seem like it would be a problem in this particular case, does it?

If the OP went to a 5mm suit and had to add weight to compensate for that buoyancy, then it would/could be on a belt, so would be ditchable.

I dive a similar rig myself in tropical waters (stainless plate/AL tank/17-18# wing/skin or 3mm) and I dive with 6# on the rig (4# plate plus trim weights on tank), and 2# on a belt (or more if I'm wearing a wetsuit). Am I doing something dangerous? I've thought it felt quite "tidy" to have the stainless plate and less "extra" weight.


Blue Sparkle

Yeah, my rig is as balanced as I can get it. My summer rig is about 17.5 # negative (includes plate, tank, regs, SS cam buckles and 2# of trim weight on the top cam strap) at the beginning of a dive. (I use an 18# Oxy wing in the summer.) 17.5# can be a chore swimming up from the bottom with a .5 mil suit or skin. But, I always figured in the event of a catastrophic wing failure, I'd simply go about my business and breath down about 6# of gas . Dumpsterdiver posted here where he did just that.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin:

Sorry for the delayed response. Here are the questions you asked:

Height - 5'6

Weight - 155 - 165lbs (lean build with bigger legs - 31/30 Pants - 31/32 waist)

Exposure Suit - Skin or 1 mil (summer) - Maybe a 3 mil (or 5) in Winter
(South Florida diving - Tropical most of the time)
(Probably will NOT be doing Cold Water diving at all - very few of any)

Cylinders - Usually rental tanks so mostly AL80 (will buy a tank someday)

Weight - Currently use either 6 or 8lbs (3+3 or 4+4) plus 2lbs tank (1+1) trim
(would like to maybe eliminate weight pockets altogether maybe with a SS plate)

Thanks for the help and let me know what else you need Sir

USVet

USVet,

At 5'6" you need a medium plate. With either 3mm or 5mm and al 80's the ballast that a SS plate provides is a benefit.

A 5mm suit on a guy your size is unlikely to be more than about 14 lbs positive (maybe less) If your suit can only loose 14 lbs max you need to be able to compensate for 14 lbs max.


Your rig will be a bout -10 lbs with a full al 80.

That means you don't need a very large wing. A Torus 17 will do the job.

Recap:

Medium SS Plate
Torus 17
Hogarthian Harness
(cambands and wedge blocks included)

If / when you buy / use a steel tank the cure is not a larger wing, but is a lightweight (kydex) back plate.

Tobin