How to handle violation of a dive site rules (Solo Diving)

[MXGratefulDiver]

For those who say MYOB ... what if you knew an accident on his part would likely result in you and every other diver losing access to the site? Would that make it YOB?

That's an issue that cave divers have been dealing with for decades ... and they have lost access to several dive sites as a result. In some cases, the owner decided it wasn't worth the risk and simply dynamited the access ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NAM001]

You being a new diver, in my opinion should take the stand of MYOB. This may sound harsh but, you are new, take advantage of the opportunity to observe the things going on and by doing so set your own standards and limitations to your style of diving. In short learn by example,,, act/dive with dilligence andn prudent judgement for each situation, and lead by example. You will fnd in time there is a giant gap in ones abiities and ones paperwork. This is nothing that exemplifies this more than by those that have no more than an OW card (for air) and have literally thousands of dives. Would you feel obligated to report that diver for not having a snorkle? There is also a clear difference in not having a snorkle and engaging is an act that has a clear and PRESENT danger. If you FEEL that something is not quite right then file it in your limitations list that you will not do this. Understandably seeing things like a solo diver checking out a cave or overhead system should raise and eyebrow and be cause for notifying someone that this is going on, and in the event that someone is missing you have provided perhaps assistance in the recovery efforts. It is not uncommon in places I have been to that undocumented solo divers dive alone. sometimes they are reattaching drop lines or other site related maintenance. If I am in a lake that is 30 ft deep with little of any potential hazzards, like most scuba parks are. I just mind my own business. I have on one occasion seen a fat solo diver trying to do a swim through of a jet engine cowling like he saw a group of other skinny divers do. Everyone tried telling him that he was too big. After not seeing him later that afternoon I told the shop of the event. They said 2 others had told them the same, they knew who it was and that he had left. On uncountless other occasions I have seen new and old divers enter sunken grayhound busses for swim throughs. I did not thik twice of it i just took the MYOB position. I did this because I saw no PRESENT threat to thier imediate safety when the bus has 4'x4' exits within 5 ft of thier position anywhere in the bus. Other examples include seeing pair of divers on a dam face wall on the surface above the suctions for the power generation plant. I told the shop what I saw, they sent someone out to move them to another location because the dam operators periodically open the flood gates to spin generator turbans in that area. I think you will find that in most situations that you encounter, most people when getting a feeling that they are progressing into something dangerous and will stop thier behavior at that point. When however you see a situation growing that has a high chance of quickly turning south, You may have to take some rarely needed pre-emptive potential life saving action and report the behavior to someone. And when doing so, do it not fr the benifit of the site but for the diver's concerned.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

For those who say MYOB ... what if you knew an accident on his part would likely result in you and every other diver losing access to the site? Would that make it YOB?

That's an issue that cave divers have been dealing with for decades ... and they have lost access to several dive sites as a result. In some cases, the owner decided it wasn't worth the risk and simply dynamited the access ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob - I usually see your point of view - on this one I don't... It is too easy to play what if games... In my opinion the OP is playing a game with this thread to provoke responses.

What if the situation was in the open ocean - would it make any difference? Is the dividing line the property owner? Would the same folks that want to make an issue here go up to a solo diver doing the same dive but a beach dive - if so - I say MYOB.

 

[TN-Steve]

Thank you for the feedback. There was a lot of good useful things things that I can consider, some general pronouncements about me, and at least one curmudgeon was kind enough to give me the benefit of psychoanalyzing me by post and pronouncing exactly the type of person I am (at least in their mind). Funny thing is, if you were to actually know me, you might make a different call, but it's the internet, and that happens. :internet:

I like the idea of just asking "oh, I thought they required redundant gear here for solos" or something like that. Unlike some who can blithely make statements like "if he dies, he dies, not my problem", I would carry a heavy load for not having at least spoken up to him, to at least clarify the situation. Hopefully I'll never be on the verge of doing something that will heavily tip the odds against me if the situation went sideway around you.

I had no intent to go running to the owners, my question truly was designed to help give me some guidance, and I got some good things to reflect on. I guess I'm more John Donne than John Galt...

In any case, thanks to all for the feedback, even that which I don't agree with was beneficial in it's own right.

Steve

 

[Dr. Lecter]

For those who say MYOB ... what if you knew an accident on his part would likely result in you and every other diver losing access to the site? Would that make it YOB?

That's an issue that cave divers have been dealing with for decades ... and they have lost access to several dive sites as a result. In some cases, the owner decided it wasn't worth the risk and simply dynamited the access ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

What it would make my business is the far bigger problem of natural selection ever leading to loss of access. You want to fight the nanny state battle because 'well, that's just the way it is', go right ahead. You're really just making it worse--but maybe your cave is what matters most. IDGAF.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

What makes you think he was certified for only a year or so? Even if he was, that seems to be more than long enough to enroll in instructor certification courses, according to posts I've seen.

I've been certified for several decades and prefer to dive alone, for the freedom and sheer bliss of the experience, and also for safety reasons. An experienced diver is safer alone in uncomplicated (not cave!) diving situations at moderate depths. Other people can be dangerous, especially inexperienced and marginally trained divers.

In any event, it should be my decision.

It is not about diving time nor being an instructor....both die equally. Training is what counts.

---------- Post added July 7th, 2014 at 08:33 PM ----------

Not really. OP has far too little information for the assumptions they are making.



Nope - reasonable question. Here's my reasonable answer - I ain't their mommy and I aint the scuba police. Not my call - especially with only wild a$$ed suppositions to go on. They die it's on them not me. And it wouldn't make me feel the least bit bad.



Unless you're an official scuba cop with a badge MYOB. It's the site manager's responsibility not your's. Plan your own dive and mind your own business. Too effing many crusaders in this world who want to play nanny/mommy.

Here is the winner of the worst answer to the question at hand. We have to police our community. Would you feel the same if a little girl was getting raped? Maybe in NY but not always elsewhere. Way too many communities are going to the thuds and drug dealers because others do not want to stand up for what is right. I gave several examples of how the situation could be explained / handled without being an A$$. You offer nothing.

 

[doctormike]

OK, you are at the shore of a dive quarry. It's a nice day, but water temperatures are in the high 40s on the platform. Visibility is around 5-10 feet. Next to you, you see:

1) An experienced cold water diver in a dry suit. He is planning a no-stop solo dive in a non-overhead environment to CESA depths with a single tank and no redundant gas supply.

2) A couple wearing wetsuits. Both recently certified, both fumbling with their equipment, trying to set up their gear. You overhear one say to the other "just stick with me, and everything will be fine, stop WORRYING so much!".


Which diver(s) do you approach? Which ones are at greater risk? Leaving aside the legal implications of the quarry operators liability, rules, and future access, which one are you going to feel worse about if there is an accident?

 

[drrich2]

Hello:

In my opinion the OP is playing a game with this thread to provoke responses.

Folks, I met and dive with TN-Steve, and he struck me as a good guy, not somebody posting to poke bears and start trouble.

I'm pretty sure I know the site he's talking about diving. Yes, it's privately owned, charges for admission, and is a popular regional dive site. I have SDI Solo certification and I dive there solo occasionally, so here's what, in my experience, their position has been:

1.) Prior to any solo dive, I'm to provide the SDI solo liability waiver, filled out and signed, with a written dive plan at the dive shop. This way if I don't turn up after awhile they're apt to know I'm missing and roughly where to look.

2.) One time I did the above but with an employee at the counter, not one of the 2 (I think) owners, both of whom know I'm solo certified. One of the owners spotted me, didn't know I'd submitted my dive plan at the dive shop, happened to notice my old Solo instructor and asked whether I'd said anything to her, I hadn't, so when I came up from the dive he came to talk to me to politely set limits and find out what was going on. I clarified that I had left the plan and waiver with staff at the dive shop, no violation, all was good.

My point is, they do take it seriously, they don't just have a policy to cover their butts if anybody dies soloing there, and they don't ignore it.

Richard.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

OK, you are at the shore of a dive quarry. It's a nice day, but water temperatures are in the high 40s on the platform. Visibility is around 5-10 feet. Next to you, you see:

1) An experienced cold water diver in a dry suit. He is planning a no-stop solo dive in a non-overhead environment to CESA depths with a single tank and no redundant gas supply.

2) A couple wearing wetsuits. Both recently certified, both fumbling with their equipment, trying to set up their gear. You overhear one say to the other "just stick with me, and everything will be fine, stop WORRYING so much!".


Which diver(s) do you approach? Which ones are at greater risk? Leaving aside the legal implications of the quarry operators liability, rules, and future access, which one are you going to feel worse about if there is an accident?

Since you did not include any rules pertaining to the dive site, then I would do almost nothing. I might would ask the newly certified couple if they need some help just because I like meeting divers and promoting our spot. I have had a great time diving and want others to have the same experience. No rules broken.

 

[doctormike]

Since you did not include any rules pertaining to the dive site, then I would do almost nothing. I might would ask the newly certified couple if they need some help just because I like meeting divers and promoting our spot. I have had a great time diving and want others to have the same experience. No rules broken.

Right, this was more of an ethical question. Some of the discussion here has mentioned that if you saw someone about to do something dangerous, you may have an ethical duty to intervene. There have been deaths in such situations, despite the technical presence of a "buddy".