hydro and vis

[spectrum]

300Bar,

I'd say you did get the deluxe treatment and while the fees were at the very high end of customary (except perhaps the nitrox) they are not out of this world. Any time you say tumble you raise the bar. Often a quick spin of a cleaning whip can do the job for less than half the charge. Having gotten a nitrox fill I'm curious about O2 cleaning, was it premix in a non 02 clean cylinder, was o2 cleaning berried in there someday.

As mentioned you can save a little by doing the hydro legwork. Just knock of the boot and valve and have the cylinder tested.

You can become certified to do inspections. There is a training fee fee and you will end up needing a few tools and a pack of stickers. For a few cylinders it's probably a waste of time. You also need to know that it's not uncommon for shops to not honor or at least question private inspections. There is the fox watching the hen house scenario you suggested and you lack of liability coverage if you missed something.

The burst disc to be honest is often neglected and a case can be made for changing them out. $10 is not unreasonable for the part and labor even though the task is very minor assuming no corrosion issues. Anytime they take a tool to something like that they could end up owing you a valve.

I think your best bet is to shop around for future reference and ask for total cost up front. The only gray area is internal condition and you can ask to remove the valve for a quick peek as you drop them off. If it's messy they can quote cleaning it up.

Pete

 

[chrispete]

IF a test is done,it should be done by an indepentend person or organisation.
NOT the user him/her self.

I do all the maint. on my wife and I's equipment. The only thing I "send out" to be done is hydro testing. I know for a fact that my equipment is maintained and tested to a much higher standard than you'll find in most dive shops (there are exceptions.) I like it that way because I know it was done correctly.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

How do you figure not for profit? VIS is usually done by tech who would otherwise be idle. So, except for the cost of the sticker and fill, it is all profit. And, typically a less than 10 minute job for most tanks.

I guess I should have said "minimal profit".

I moved from Guam last year. While living there, a visual inspection cost $10 including an air fill. An air fill typically costs $5.

I can confidently say that the shop isn't making a whole lot of profit on that $10 VIP.
The tech, idle or not, is still getting paid an hourly wage. The employee that's on the payroll for the day, along with the sticker, the o-ring, and the air fill still cost money...........I just don't see where any shop is making a killing on doing visual inspections.

The VIP costs are the same here in Japan as they were on Guam.
Do most shops charge $10 for a VIP? I'm guessing that's about the average cost.

-Mitch

 

[TMHeimer]

The $24 for nitrox is obviously high. Can't do anything about tax (it's, like, 15% in Canada). The rest of the list seems to me to be in line (though we only have basically one shop for hundreds of miles so I don't compare very often). Interesting comparison--I just spent over $800 for a new alternator for the car, and $85 for a spring for a wiper that took them about 5 minutes to install. That makes service fees that LDSs charge seem low--especially since it's equipment your life depends on. I know, a car can be that way too, but you can breathe air while driving. Maybe if shops charged more for everything Instructors could get paid more and (at most shops) DMs could get PAID. Different can of worms, but perhaps it's all related?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

What don't you understand here ??

I'm testing MY own tanks, SURE they'll NOT gona fail
What's the purpose of the VIP now ??

IF a test is done,it should be done by an indepentend person or organisation.
NOT the user him/her self.
Could be me

So you are pointing out a "conflict of interest" scenario. If the purpose of the VIP is to ensure the overall safety of the tank, I would think that both parties -- the owner of the tank and a dive shop filling the tank -- would have mutually aligned interests.

I realize that VIPs for AL tanks are supposed to catch cracks in the neck, among other things.
For steel tanks, the VIPs will catch rusting -- the sooner it's caught, the better. I'd think that any reasonable tank owner would want to catch such things.

I got a little annoyed a few years back when a relatively inexperienced tank inspector failed one of my steel tanks for very minimal, fine spot rusting (probably introduced by a not-so-dry fill from a dive boat). The inspector insisted on a tumble. I thought a light whipping was more appropriate. The dive shop sent tanks out for tumbling services but didn't post the cost of whipping services. Not sure why. Needless to say, the inspector was adamant that a tumble was indicated. I didn't feel like arguing with him. The tank was tumbled.

 

[spectrum]

Certification to inspect does not ensure a proper job. Look at the many licensed drivers that kill themselves (and others) via reckless behavior. That being said I fully understand the concerns about personal inspections. Anyone can make a mistake but having an insurance carrier involved softens the risk.

I don't have the statistics at hand to cite (so don"t ask) but I believe they bear out the statement that majority risk of a failing tank lies in the filling operation.

 

[300bar]

Wow did I hit a sore spot ??
No reason to quote you all, I just don't see how and why a inspector, can inspect his own.
Yes I do VIPs aswell, need to,I'm a diveshop.
But testing my own tanks for a sticker, is just wrong IMO.
I know I want and need to know HOW the inside of my tanks look, but putting a sticker on them, sounds like fraud in the making.
What's the value to a diveshop,If you put your own sticker on a tank?

300Bar,

I'd say you did get the deluxe treatment and while the fees were at the very high end of customary (except perhaps the nitrox) they are not out of this world. Any time you say tumble you raise the bar. Often a quick spin of a cleaning whip can do the job for less than half the charge. Having gotten a nitrox fill I'm curious about O2 cleaning, was it premix in a non 02 clean cylinder, was o2 cleaning berried in there someday.

As mentioned you can save a little by doing the hydro legwork. Just knock of the boot and valve and have the cylinder tested.

You can become certified to do inspections. There is a training fee fee and you will end up needing a few tools and a pack of stickers. For a few cylinders it's probably a waste of time. You also need to know that it's not uncommon for shops to not honor or at least question private inspections. There is the fox watching the hen house scenario you suggested and you lack of liability coverage if you missed something.

The burst disc to be honest is often neglected and a case can be made for changing them out. $10 is not unreasonable for the part and labor even though the task is very minor assuming no corrosion issues. Anytime they take a tool to something like that they could end up owing you a valve.

I think your best bet is to shop around for future reference and ask for total cost up front. The only gray area is internal condition and you can ask to remove the valve for a quick peek as you drop them off. If it's messy they can quote cleaning it up.

Pete

Did you confuse me with the OP ?

 

[Rogersea]

Yes it is expensive, (IMHO)Hydrostatic testing should include a VIP. Did they replace burst disk at your request??


Cheers,
Roger

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

How do you figure not for profit? VIS is usually done by tech who would otherwise be idle. So, except for the cost of the sticker and fill, it is all profit. And, typically a less than 10 minute job for most tanks.

A VIP requires dissasembly and inspection and I don't know anyone that works for free. The PSI course cost me $250. Scope, light, stickers, Visual Eddy? All that costs money and it takes time to recoup those expenses.

Bottom line is it's not all profit. Not even close.

 

[fjpatrum]

I don't mind supporting my local dive shop but it is expensive.

Last tank hydro with 32% nitrox fill.

hydro- $35
VIP-$20
Tumbling and Rust Treat- $35
Burst Assy- $20
32% Nitrox-$24
tax-$2.45
Total or $141.45

What do you guys think?

Is this on line or unreasonable?

The dive shop I go to is the only place I go to so if I am having a problem with rust is the shop causing it. This is the second time they have done this on this tank!

What do ya'll think.

Just had one of mine done and I think it was $68 with fill. Here's my breakout:

hydro- $18
VIP-$15
Tumbling (no Rust Treat-AL tank) $20
32% Nitrox-$11
o-ring- $2

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

Wow did I hit a sore spot ??
No reason to quote you all, I just don't see how and why a inspector, can inspect his own.
Yes I do VIPs aswell, need to,I'm a diveshop.
But testing my own tanks for a sticker, is just wrong IMO.
I know I want and need to know HOW the inside of my tanks look, but putting a sticker on them, sounds like fraud in the making.
What's the value to a diveshop,If you put your own sticker on a tank?

So, you're qualified/certified to inspect tanks but you're not qualified to inspect your own? How exactly does it constitute fraud, in any sense of the word, for a qualified inspector to do the inspection and sticker a tank? I don't really care about the value to a diveshop for me to do my own inspections... it's about me being responsible for my own gear, top to bottom. Do you feel the same about servicing your own regs? What about your BC?

I'm curious what it is about a tank that makes inspecting/servicing it special compared to other gear.

That said, I haven't done a class for inspections and probably never will. I figure I only have a few tanks and it's not really worth my time or money to bother when I can get it done in a shop for <$15.