The cost of Padi

[Scuba_Steve]

Catherine,

You questions are valid, of course. Over the last thirty years I've noticed that PADI has realised that con-ed is their business model; compartmentalization of information to specific teaching programs is the result. One of the reasons OW water is what it is, is that pushing education after OW retains divers. Feed just enough information, reduce task loading, and get divers into the sport. Continued participation through stepping-stone education is the key, and the books reflect that.

Well I have to agree with you Daniel, but were does diver safety and instructional morality come into playing, or am I a naive little man?

It sounds to me like you're saying that they're feeding them (too) little, and unless they come back to the trough, they're probably not getting enough info to conduct safe diving other than trial by fire, and if so, then the book seller is stating that they should have ponied up for more books and tough banana's for the dead guy for not having the coin to card-up.

???

 

[daniel f aleman]

Well, nothing is really compromised by PADI's methods concerning safety. The way that PADI sees it is that a beginning diver is safer by following the rules taught in OW, only learn what's needed at the start. Don't dive past limits. And as the diver learns more, through experience and education, he gets to dive under more rules taught in PADI con-ed. It's not a bad approach, just that the diver will NEED additional training after so many dives as he will not have learned certain things, now needed, in OW. The problem arises if said PADI OW diver doesn't take advanced courses. The earning of a PADI C-card allows for a lot more than just the minimum... sometimes you just need to know more.

 

[RonFrank]

Oh, c'mon $25 for a book is cheap. I can't believe that anyone in the United States would bat an eye over $25.00. You cannot photocopy copyrighted material. It belongs to the author.

The PADI Deluxe OW crew kit is NOT $25, it's $78, but does include plastic dive tables worth $5, a log book that is worth another $5, or less as it's not even water proof and a binder. What's it's missing is the $40 DVD that IMO is basically worthless.... Of course these are retail prices, but some LDS's don't provide much of a discount.

LDS's can and do photocopy the quiz pages all the time. If this is somehow actionable then PADI needs to hire a larger legal team as this outragous behavior is going on even as we speak

 

[TheRedHead]

Just takes a lot more than $78 for a PADI kit to get to me. Maybe a speeding ticket in Texas...

 

[Cacia]

Hey Redhat, I'm saving for Bali and CS 2....gotta be frugal. My real point, everyone, is not that my friends were treated poorly, not that I can't afford the books. My real point is that I sense PADI has an impending "relations" problem coming down the pike. If anyone agrees and takes note, cool. Then again, I could be all wet.
And you are right Redhat, PADI fees will not ruin my life.

 

[RonFrank]

Just takes a lot more than $78 for a PADI kit to get to me. Maybe a speeding ticket in Texas...

Well, I'm not hugely against paying the prices for course materials that we pay, but things do add up quickly. I'm taking a Rescue class next, and by the time it's all said and done that relatively inexpensive $150 course is going to run me over $400.

For the new diver the relatively inexpensive $200 OW class often results in over 1K in spending, and they walk away with a cert, and some personal gear.

Some LDS's DO have a library approach, and I'm very in favor of this for many reasons including the environmentally friendly aspect of reusing books rather than printing a ton that will eventually end up in land fills as these are outdated in a very short timeframe.

PAID preaches being Eco aware, so why the practice of printing material for a one time use, and then updating it with extremely minor changes every couple of years to basically devalue the older material which now becomes landfill as it has no market value.

There can be only ONE answer!

 

[dlndavid]

This should be in the Whine and Cheeze, can't afford the recipe, stay out of the kitchen. Let's go bash Aeris for charging $100 for a $10 cable.

 

[**ping**]

Ron, your posts are stellar.

I would like to see PADI raise the bar a bit on their books. It would not be that hard and then people would be less likely to complain about the costs. Most of the PADI books are pretty disposable....And you can basically read the summary little boxes and do well on the tests. They spend too many pages saying absolutely nothing. And I liked diving and I like reading about diving....I really think the materials are poor. Putting those little tiny books in those big colorful boxes doesn't impress me either.

One thing that is really needed is various types of problems WORKED OUT, I have a science degree, am not too "math challenged" and I felt the materials were not helpful. I bought the workbook for my DM but I needed to see some of the problems worked out, not just see the correct answer. Which leads me to another complaint. Why can some people without even a GED get all the correct answers on the test? Me, I think it is fishy.

I have been one of those that a little critical about GUE and DIR. It occurred to me the other day, I bet they focus more on the instruction than pumping out books....And that maybe we should "sweep around our own back door."

I'm not bashing. PADI is MY agency. I want them to do a better job with this. Once I see that it falls on deaf ears, I won't mention it again. Like my earlier post, if people do not believe my version of what happened to my friends, then ...fine. I think for PADI to be a good value for people's cash, they need this feedback. If I see the feedback is not wanted, I will move on to some other issue.

My thoughts on the matter exactly. When I started diving, I was ready to embark on a journey where you would need knowledge, skills and ultimatively experience in order to experience diving safely.

I was dead serious about diving and more than a little put off when I bought the OW and AID books... I have the DM manual too. Making people believe that everything is about FUN, FUN, FUN by masking the bare hard facts and dangers in just so much mush made me feel a little bit like I have been taken for a ride.

Maybe it comes down to personal preference, being not an American and having been brought up by parents with rather analytical minds, but I think the books could use some editing, more towards treating people like actual grown-ups. Like they are now, I have seen 3rd grade school books that are written more concise.

Apart from that, I actually enjoyed the PADI training approach. The instructors I have seen were all very good and conscientious and taught the necessary knowledge in a way more earnest fashion.

PADI is good at teaching people the principles of recreational diving. The rest should come with experience.

 

[Cacia]

Actually, David, I think it is a constructive thread, hearing which aspects of PADI people are happy with and which ones we might want improved. Whine and Cheese? We are not discussing leafblower noise or rudeness. Make your case, why this is not a productive debate....I mean you are not the only one, Redhat has chimed in with the same sentiment. It is curious to me. The last poster? He was pretty even handed, I thought. I am hoping someone has some thoughts on the way PADI teaches Physics in the advanced classes.... Why does "bashing" keep coming up?
Honestly, my goal here would be if more instructors heard this and had some sample problems all worked out, maybe ten of each "type" that the students could use for preparing for the exam. I was thinking that there was a great cross-section of people giving good input here.

 

[alcina]

has some thoughts on the way PADI teaches Physics in the Divemaster class....

PADI doesn't teach physics. The instructor teaches physics with the PADI guidelines and materials (but not limited to those materials).

My only problem with discussions like this are that the wrong "group" gets targeted and that many of the things touched on are not specific only to one "group".