The cost of Padi

[storm1fishing]

Sorry to interupt this friendly interlude , but the cost of scuba diving or equipment was not in question.
What I would like to know , is how much you are prepared to pay for a manual that is not in your language and that you could not read.
I agree with having to have the manual , and I do have them and enjoy going through them now and then , but if padi want to force me to have them , then at least they should provide them in my language.
Please , I am not doing any Padi bashing , this could be the same for all the other dive agencies , I dont know because I am with Padi.

 

[dlndavid]

Well, I'm not hugely against paying the prices for course materials that we pay, but things do add up quickly. I'm taking a Rescue class next, and by the time it's all said and done that relatively inexpensive $150 course is going to run me over $400.

For the new diver the relatively inexpensive $200 OW class often results in over 1K in spending, and they walk away with a cert, and some personal gear.

Some LDS's DO have a library approach, and I'm very in favor of this for many reasons including the environmentally friendly aspect of reusing books rather than printing a ton that will eventually end up in land fills as these are outdated in a very short timeframe.

PAID preaches being Eco aware, so why the practice of printing material for a one time use, and then updating it with extremely minor changes every couple of years to basically devalue the older material which now becomes landfill as it has no market value.

There can be only ONE answer!

Tell this guy then.

 

[RonFrank]

Don't you think much of life IS about the money, let's face that.
Do you charge for taking photos at weddings, or do you do this for free?

I'm a software engineer by trade as indicated in my profile. Sure I charge for Weddings, but I do NOT charge clients a fee if they want to promote my business or my work which is a practice that PADI has adopted. Care to comment on that?

Ok, now I get it you're an environmentalist right? And humans are only a scourge on this earth. As for having to purchase the DVD, see above, you're wrong again.

Actually I try to do my part with conservation, but that really has nothing to do with this topic. PADI indicates that they require that the DVD be purchased. Regardless of if some shops do not require this. If you doubt this, see the PADI website under the requirements for classes where it clearly indicated under the heading "What will I need". So why does PADI require the purchase of a DVD if the material is covered in the books?

Everybody has their own idea of what cheap is, your opinion of it NOT BEING cheap, IS just YOUR opinion. And I do go back and look at all my manuals from time to time.

My suggestions on manuals stems primarily from the fact that MOST divers I know are once a year divers, who throw out their manuals (generally in the form of GoodWill donations) within a few months of taking OW. The reality is the dispite a booming participation on SB, MOST divers get certified, and then dive once a year or less.

Having a library of manuals has nothing to do with cheap. It has to do with conservation. Preventing the LDS from having a shared library of PADI materials that could be checked out for students is the right thing to do from a conservation standpoint. The ONLY reason PADI would veto this idea (which is hardly mine BTW) is because of $$$. But this violates their own environmental statements. Care to argue THIS point, which has been a cornerstone of what I've been saying for umpteen posts?

This is not the first time you have pulled this crap on me with your know it all condescending lecture type posting to me, so let's just leave each other alone, as we will never see eye to eye, and it just ain't fun. And that is to set the record straight.
Ciao

The reality is that you attack posters rather than the contents and ideas behind the posts. If you get some grief back in the process it's hardly unanticipated.

You contine to ignore the main discussions here and attack posters, and when people get sick of it, and repent, you cry. If you are going to engauge people, I think you need to grow some skin, and expect them to engauge you back.

Your arguments are illogical, and you dodge the issues that are discussed. So do you care to comment on the issues at hand, or are you willing to admit that you are loosing the debate, and that attacking me is a better option at this time to distract the points that myself and others are making?

 

[alcina]

Cool heads, Guys.

We are getting pretty close to personal attacks here, so let's try to stay on topic - the topic is NOT the other guy

Thanks...

 

[dlndavid]

ok move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Kim]

Ok folks. I have deleted a large number of posts to cool things down. If anyone considers that I missed any, or have deleted something I shouldn't, please contact me via PM.
If there are any more personal attacks and insults I will be forced to take further remedial action. Differences of opinion and arguments are one thing - attacking other posters is another. Please consider this a last warning.

 

[espenskogen]

WHOA! You clearly have no idea of the other expenses involved in running a dive shop/operation!

Also, regionally, things are much different. Here in Cozumel for example, a typical instructor salary for a course is 40% of the course cost. The shop supplies the tanks, equipment, student materials, shop overhead, liability insurance, operating licenses, etc. etc. You can't just take the direct costs like books and instructor pay out of the course cost and coll it profit...it does not work that way at all...the shop actually makes next to nothing on the course...but the instructor does.

I didn't call it profit - I called it gross profit - That's the revenue minus direct costs.

Now, net profit, which you are referring to is revenue minus all costs (Direct costs + Overheads). If you have big overheads, then it might not be profitable - if you don't, it might.

Stuff like equipment and tanks etc is covered by depreciation - They loose value over their lifespan, and you write that off at the end of each accounting year.

Insurance and rent is all part of the overheads..

I would expect (in most industries) that the direct costs of a service is substantially higher than the indirect costs. (When you calculate the indirect cost per unit) In retail generally, the gross profit is between 10% and 30%. In diving, I expect it is a lot higher. Certainly the shop I work for has a very high profit margin on their courses - But then they don't teach that many students, being based in London, UK, and they have the shop overhead which is high.

Just out of curiosity, if the instructor takes 40% of the course cost, he gets paid $120 per student??? 8 students per course, 5 courses a month, you're looking at an instructor salary of $4800 a month? Somehow i don't believe it...

 

[nyprrthd]

Just out of curiosity, if the instructor takes 40% of the course cost, he gets paid $120 per student??? 8 students per course, 5 courses a month, you're looking at an instructor salary of $4800 a month? Somehow i don't believe it...

While it's all basic accounting, I would be willing to bet that your estimation of number of courses/students a month is a little high for the "average" dive center; especially one not located in a warm weather/resort area. The cost of an OW course also varies quite a bit, depending on location, competition, etc. Without giving away any secrets, can any dive shop owners out there give us an idea of how close espenskogen is to actual students/courses per month? High? Low? Right on the money?

 

[espenskogen]

While it's all basic accounting, I would be willing to bet that your estimation of number of courses/students a month is a little high for the "average" dive center; especially one not located in a warm weather/resort area. The cost of an OW course also varies quite a bit, depending on location, competition, etc. Without giving away any secrets, can any dive shop owners out there give us an idea of how close espenskogen is to actual students/courses per month? High? Low? Right on the money?

I expect I am probably high if you assume that the shop has only one instructor - The calculations are based on that one instructor spends 4 days per course, and that he works 20 days a month. As we know, the diving industry (in most places) is also seasonal - Winter time is going to be a lot less busy, so the shop would need to recover their overheads within season.

Having said that - Most divecentres (at least in hot countries) have a substantial revenue stream from simply taking people diving, which contributes heavily to covering overheads.

My point is that compared to what revenue a viable diveshop would have to achieve, the dues to padi is insignificant - It's simply another overhead.

For a backroom business, or a diveshop on the brink of bankrupcy, it's a different story. But then again, these businesses are not Padi's target market.

If you think of it - a padi shop without padi membership has no foundation for continued business. The Padi certified instructors and Divemasters are absolutely necessary for the shop to exist. And since the licensing agreement for instructors and divemasters don't allow them to use padi's name to market a shop, the shop will HAVE to be a member as well, to take advantage of the brand. So in that sense, the padi membership is as necessary to grow the business as are the cylinders and regulators and instructors..

Does it seem unfair to have to pay the certifying organisation almost $1000 to be rubberstamped as an official Padi Dive Centre? Maybe. But my guess is that the membership will contribute far more in additional revenue (if used well) than the dues.

E

 

[dlndavid]

Ok folks. I have deleted a large number of posts to cool things down. If anyone considers that I missed any, or have deleted something I shouldn't, please contact me via PM.
If there are any more personal attacks and insults I will be forced to take further remedial action. Differences of opinion and arguments are one thing - attacking other posters is another. Please consider this a last warning.

Kim, Ron accused me of not addressing his points, I did, my post was deleted, it was not an attack, just a rebutal. At least PM me the post so I may look at it to see where this so called personal attack took place. Thanks