Time for a mandatory refresher?

[ScottyK]

Drew Sailbum once bubbled...
Yes, there is a charge for the pool refresher. It is $10 more than paying for the dive and rental gear that "Scott" wanted.

Wait a minute! These two didn't even own their own gear??? So the plan was to go right to the wall, after a years long layoff, in gear they weren't familiar with

Maybe the cert. agencies ought to standardize an IQ test

PS I am "not" the Scott from this story. I've been nowhere near Grand Cayman all day and I can prove it!

 

[Phish-phood]

I'm all for mandatory refreshers or shallow dives and if a dive shop asked me to do one I would have no probs at all as long as they weren't just doing it as a money spinner.

The way I see it is

it allows you to check me out but equally allows me to check you out
it's extra dives for me which is always a plus
a refresher under an instructor, hey I might learn something
if I haven't dived in a while I get my confidence back
If I have that much confidence in my ability that I feel insulted to be asked then I should have no problem proving them wrong

 

[Rick Murchison]

I've been diving actively since before initial certification in 1971. I dive frequently in lots of different conditions. (This weekend I did two cave dives and a wreck in addition to some pure open water.)
When I get to a resort or a new shop and they ask me to do a "warm-up" or a "skills demonstration" or a "let us see you so we know you can actually dive" or an "orientation" dive, my only response is "Where? How deep? How long? Anything in particular you want me to do?"
And at the end of the dive, I always say "Great dive!" And I mean it.
(I remember one little "orientation" dive at the Barracuda in Cozumel several year ago where there was a little patch of bottom with so much diversity, so many interesting things packed together that normally wouldn't be that shallow that when I came up I said "Great dive!" and then asked "Y'all planted that stuff, didn't you?" That elicited a sheepish grin...)
Rick

 

[Walter]

Mike,

In general, I agree with your points. OTOH, I have operated a charter boat what you suggest is not practical. People who've been out of the water that long (especially with such little experience to begin with) are usually a danger to themselves and anyone near by.

I was recently teaching a private wreck class, we were on our way to a moderately deep wreck (110' to the sand), when the DM pulled me aside to discuss his problem. Seems 2 guys were on board who had not been diving in 3 years. He was upset with the shop for putting them on the boat on this trip since they obviously needed a refresher and a less advanced dive to get back into diving. I suggested he have them sit out the dive.

He opted to dive with them instead (no extra fee, BTW, just trying to save their bacon).

As my student was setting up to enter the wreck, I saw some movement off to my right. Glancing over, I saw one of these guys all alone, in a vertical position, maintaining his depth by flapping his arms like a bird’s wings while bicycling like crazy.

I signaled to him, asking, “Where is your buddy?” I got the blank stare of the dairy cow in response. I signaled again, still no indication he was aware of his surroundings. I pointed to the up line and signaled for him to ascend. He stayed there flapping. My thought was, this guy is as good as dead if he doesn’t get help quickly.

Immediately, I got my student’s attention and told her to put away the reel. Turning back to the flapper, I saw him moving farther away from the up line. Turning back to my student, I saw she had taken care of the reel and was looking at me for directions. Moving toward the flapper, I saw the DM arrive and take control (literally, he had him by the tank valve) and start up. I was then able to go back to working with my student.

The other guy panicked after they started down and the DM took him up, signaling to the flapper to come up with him. The flapper ignored this and went on a solo dive. As soon as he got the panicked guy on the boat, he went after the other.

My point is this could have turned out tragically. These guys are welcome to clean up the gene pool, but don’t do it in a way that endangers other and don’t do it on a commercial charter.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I see your point Walter and I certainly agree that there are dives that the occassional diver have no business doing. In today's dive industry I wouldn't have any part of running a charter for the masses.

Some of the boats we dive on will only take you to certain sites if they know you or you come with a recommendation from some one they do know.

 

[medical1]

Walter once bubbled...
Snip
I was recently teaching a private wreck class, we were on our way to a moderately deep wreck (110' to the sand), when the DM pulled me aside to discuss his problem. Seems 2 guys were on board who had not been diving in 3 years. He was upset with the shop for putting them on the boat on this trip since they obviously needed a refresher and a less advanced dive to get back into diving. I suggested he have them sit out the dive.

He opted to dive with them instead (no extra fee, BTW, just trying to save their bacon).

My god - did they actually have c-cards with pictures (of them) or did they borrow the cards from there brothers Jeb & Billy Bob and just think they could fake it?

Was it equipment problems? Were they smart enough to do an equipment check before entering the water? Could they even swim?

You can tell a LOT about a diver by there equipment & how well they check it & prepare for a dive before they enter the water.

VERY nice of the DM to dive with them & save there butts!!!!!

I hope to hell he got a GREAT tip! Just goes to show some people should not breed

 

[yknot]

While I would agree that to allow someone to dive or not is purely at the discretion of the charter operator, the basis behind it- being divers who haven't had recent experience- sounds a lot like expiring c-cards. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how other "adventure" sports police themselves and also how they fare when faced with legal action? For instance, is there anything preventing me from buying a lift ticket in Aspen, renting skis and then heading for the double black diamond runs or heading down the "closed" side of a mountain? Are there "ski resort" police checking my abilities?

 

[Jersey]

Walter - you echo my thoughts upon reading this exactly - they are a danger to themselves & anyone else nearby. Further, I'd suggest by having to go to the aide of 'flapper' w/ his 'dairy cow stare' (still wiping coffee off desk) you put both yourself & your student at risk. (My second favorite rule - do not risk becoming a victim yourself.) OK maybe not that great a risk, but we've all seen or heard of situations turning real bad in a hurry. What could have happened if both diver 1 & 2 made it down, DM experienced a severe problem, and 1 & 2 both started foundering? Always think in terms of worse case scenarios.

Drew - good for your shop. Ambulances, bent bodies and worse are not pretty sites, nor good for business. I would not want to be a patron on board with a shop who let 2 idiots hurt themselves, just not something I want to pay money to see.

As for me - I keep my gear serviced by professionals (sorry guys, not a DIY kind of girl when it comes to gear!) & hit the pool if I've been away for more then 3 months.

 

[yknot]

While I would agree that to allow someone to dive or not is purely at the discretion of the charter operator, the basis behind it- being divers who haven't had recent experience- sounds a lot like expiring c-cards. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how other "adventure" sports police themselves and also how they fare when faced with legal action? For instance, is there anything preventing me from buying a lift ticket in Aspen, renting skis and then heading for the double black diamond runs or heading down the "closed" side of a mountain? Are there "ski resort" police checking my abilities?

 

[Butch103]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I agree but I also think they should have known it.

... I will assume you mean as in common sense and proper dive training/knowledge????

I agree wholeheartedly and I agree with the shops policy.

As for allowing the diver to pick his/her own dives based on their comfort zone, (actual or percieved) is flawed.

The surviving relatives will still sue....