PADI Does Revoke Certifications

[nimoh]

She was in cave country. Cave divers are a close knit group. You don't screw anyone in cave country. Had I not paid I would have looked dishonest. For the most part Cave Divers are the most honest, friendly divers you will ever meet. Just don't screw a fellow diver because you never know who they know . This girl is really finding that out the hard way.

So she saw you do a deep dive, and then asked you for a 27.50 processing fee to get you a deep diver card.

and even though you didn't want the card, you felt that by not giving her the 27.50, you would be screwing her over?

 

[theduckguru]

What is really stupid is PADI revoking the the certs, asking you to send the cards back, and not telling you not to engage in deep or dry diving until you received proper training.

 

[boulderjohn]

So she saw you do a deep dive, and then asked you for a 27.50 processing fee to get you a deep diver card.

and even though you didn't want the card, you felt that by not giving her the 27.50, you would be screwing her over?

Sadly, people who normally act with honor expect others to do the same and are too often fooled.

 

[mike_s]

What is really stupid is PADI revoking the the certs, asking you to send the cards back, and not telling you not to engage in deep or dry diving until you received proper training.

hm.... she wrote PADI and said "I didn't complete the requirements". I think they asking for the cards back basically was the next step as she "confessed".



now I think PADI could have handled it better.


It seems they did in the end, saying that if she took the classes, they would waive the filing fee (pic cards) with pre-arrangement. Seems that since they took her money though, and their representative who taught the class didn't deliver, if they want the cards back, they should refund. But I guess their offer is better than nothing.


the OP will prob never get any other money back from the instructor. But it will be interesting to see how PADI handles letting this instructor do further classes in their name.

 

[nimoh]

As others have said, I would just keep the drysuit card. Who cares if the certification was revoked?

With your diving experience, it is unlikely that you would benefit from the drysuit class, but may need the card one day to rent a drysuit. It is highly unlikely that after showing the card, they would verify your student number.

As for the deep diver card, probably not much need for an ice scraper in Florida, so it is pretty much useless

 

[boulderjohn]

the OP will prob never get any other money back from the instructor. But it will be interesting to see how PADI handles letting this instructor do further classes in their name.

PADI has a number of options leading up to expulsion. I can't believe they will do nothing. We have had a number of threads in recent months about PADI instructors being expelled, and sometimes quite quickly.

 

[DevonDiver]

PADI has a number of options leading up to expulsion. I can't believe they will do nothing. We have had a number of threads in recent months about PADI instructors being expelled, and sometimes quite quickly.

In this case, there are a number of issues that PADI will be concerned about.

Obviously, the shoddy/non-existent adherence to standards will be addressed. They'll probably canvas a few of the instructor's other ex-students, to see if it is a trend, or a one-off incident. They'll also ask the instructor directly. My assumption is that this issue, unless blatant and sustained, would lead to nothing more than a 'slap on the hand' - or, as PADI term it something like 'having to sign a statement of confirmation', promising not to do it any more...

Further repeat offences might lead to 're-training'... pay PADI some more cash to sit-in on elements of the IDC or re-take an IE. Blow it again after that... and you might worry about your certification status as an instructor.

No safety issues are presented in this case - so PADI probably wouldn't cut the instructor loose out of any liability fears.

The other issue (which a cynic might say PADI would be more concerned about) is that the instructor wasn't supplying the proper PADI materials for the course. This costs PADI money - and is something they've instigated numerous standards and updates to emphasize. Seemingly more so than any communication effort made to improve the quality of courses taught. If the student didn't receive materials, then the instructor probably wasn't buying the materials from PADI. That hits profitability and PADI don't get their "fair share" of the loot. They'll slit throats for less..

My membership/status was once 'threatened' by PADI. It was very serious. I had mistakenly believed that (as a PADI Pro) I could use their logo on my website. Bam! Nasty email threatening expulsion if I didn't remove the image immediately. So... yes, they can "move pretty quickly" if motivated to do so. We can all guess what those motivations are....

 

[TracyN]

There were safety issues. She had me do the drysuit class in an overhead enviornment and she said I earned my deep certification because she said that she saw me successfully complete a cave dive from around 90 feet and for her that satisfied the requirements of the Deep Specialty. PADI wasn't too happy about this and made me explain in detail the events. OW certs in an overhead environment=PADI Not Happy. I had to make sure I told PADI that I was a cave certified diver.

 

[Hawkwood]

...she said I earned my deep certification because she said that she saw me successfully complete a cave dive from around 90 feet and for her that satisfied the requirements of the Deep Specialty. PADI wasn't too happy about this and made me explain in detail the events...

In other words, your Instructor issued the Deep Dive certification fraudulently. No wonder they were not happy.

 

[-hh]

I think PADI should reimburse you if the inst doesn't because part of your course fee was paid to PADI and PADI issued the certs. Personally, I don't think I would surrender the certs until the compensation issue is resolved.

My response on the cards would be that PADI only gets the cards back if the PIC fee is refunded and the instructor is expelled. If PADI is unwilling to do at least that, they'll have to file a lawsuit to get them back from you. PADI's attempt to get the C-Card back is functionally an attempt to remove any evidence that PADI was a party to inadequate training.

What is great way to discorage people to report mis behavor instructor??

Exactly. PADI is interested in their own liability first, second and third.

I know they are investigating her but that's about all I know. I do know that once the investigation is complete PADI will let me know but they won't tell me what actions were taken, if any.

Even if QA completes the investigation and recommends an expulsion, that recommendation can be overruled higher up.

why did you pay the 27.50 processing fee originally for the card?

Practices vary. For example, I can't ever recall paying the PIC for any of my Certs ... it was paid for by the instructor out of the money that I gave them for the class.

PADI has a number of options leading up to expulsion. I can't believe they will do nothing. We have had a number of threads in recent months about PADI instructors being expelled, and sometimes quite quickly.

Where an administrative reprimand is sufficient to show that "something" was done. In the meantime, the customer still got screwed. IMO, the question of expulsion depends on not only the actual merits of the case, but also if PADI discovers that there's a thread on Scubaboard and if said thread also includes the Instructor's name and PADI Instructor#. Since I believe these latter conditions still haven't been met, I'd bet a sixpack against an expulsion taking place.


-hh