BP/W pocket quandary for women

[beanojones]

I can blow that theory out of the water. I dove a jacket BCD for 10 years and while I became a good diver with good trim and buoyancy, I suffered it's shortcomings. I listened to the people claim (forcefully at times) how great a BP/W and ignored them just as you do.

When I got back into diving I decided to try a BP/W out. Much better then what I had. I didn't use gear to solve a skills problem and I didn't fix both problems at the same time.

Don't make assumptions about my diving and I won't about yours. I have worn them, and I find them uncomfortable. But actually my assumptions about your diving probably make more sense than yours about mine. You got experienced, then switched to a backplate, and magically you are a better diver? It's not magic, it's experience.

Don't confuse correlation with cause and effect.

BP/W seem to work for a few people, but they don't for many more. And there are a bunch of people willing to put up with BP/W shortcomings and desperately work to minimize those shortcomings seemingly in an attempt to make their decision to use an oddball setup work. That's fine (or that's DIR, depending on how you see it.) All manufacturers love people with gear fetishes. I love divers with gear fetishes. I just don't get the "divers" at SB failing to listen to the questions someone asks and instead just starts screaming BP/W, DID SOMEONE SAY BP/W? THEY ARE GREAT AND ANYONE WHO DOES NOT THINK IS STUPID AND INEXPERIENCED!

There is not a conspiracy to keep BP/W out of divers hands; it's just that most people don't like them. It's not that they are not setup right, or whatever. It's that they are not comfortable for most divers.

Because most divers are diving in warm water with minimal wetsuits or no wetsuits, and comfort trumps just about everything else with sunburns for most people engaged in a leisure activity. Bare plates are uncomfortable on the back for many, and hot in the sun for many. So one can add a backpad. But they hard plates still lock a divers back into a position, and crotch straps are ridiculously uncomfortable, though BP/Ws seem to need them. BP/Ws suck to get on and off even ignoring the crotch strap, which is just annoying in use and a pain to deal with when gearing up.

At that point, why not just switch to a soft BP/W like a Transpac which can get by without a crotch strap, or hey why not a jacket BCD, because

BP/W's don't have pockets.

(HEY THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS WHOLE FREAKING THREAD IS ABOUT. THIS IS NOT A THREAD WHERE MORE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT READ GO RUNNING OFF TALKING ABOUT BP/W SOLVING WORLD HUNGER! But of course, that's exactly what every thread even glancingly about this topic becomes, a bunch of people not listening to the OP's question, and just running off with how BP/W solve the economic crisis or whatever, whatever their gear fetish is.)

BP/W don't have pockets.

Oh, and didn't the OP mention that she is in a quandary about the fact BP/W's don't have pockets? Jacket BCDs have pockets.

 

[Glenlivet]

BP/W don't have pockets.

Oh, and didn't the OP mention that she is in a quandary about the fact BP/W's don't have pockets? Jacket BCDs have pockets.

Yes, Jacket BCDs have pockets. On those I have used or seen, you find the pocket opening somewhere around your lower ribs (easy to reach. NOT!) and those on my wifes BCD are in addition ridiculously small.

On the other hand, the pockets on my XS Scuba shorts are on my thighs (easy to access), quite big, fold away if empty (less drag) and I can leave them in the car or on the boat if I don't need them (less bulk).
(And I don't notice them while diving, which I can't say about jacket BCDs that wrap around my torso)

 

[dfx]

Yes, Jacket BCDs have pockets. On those I have used or seen, you find the pocket opening somewhere around your lower ribs (easy to reach. NOT!) and those on my wifes BCD are in addition ridiculously small.

And how does not having pockets at all fix that?

FTR, during my rental BCD time I've rented many different makes and models of BCDs. Sure, some pockets are of better design than others, but I've never had any real problem with accessing them or storing stuff in them.

 

[Glenlivet]

And how does not having pockets at all fix that?

Why lug pockets around which are more or less useless?

As you could read in my post, I have pockets. They are where they belong: on me, not on my BCD.

And that is one possible answer to the OPs question ;-)

FTR, during my rental BCD time I've rented many different makes and models of BCDs. Sure, some pockets are of better design than others, but I've never had any real problem with accessing them or storing stuff in them.

I'm not talking about real problems, it's more a matter of how annoying it is. I plainly don't like jacket BCDs and I don't see them having pockets as a redeeming quality.

 

[kathydee]

The Scubapro shorts are made of a number of stretchy materials that don't add a lot of bouyancy. The parts that are neoprene are 1.0 mil. The pockets are on the smallish side, but also made of stretchy material, so you can jam more than you would think into them. On the left I have a spool and SMB, on the right a spare mask and wetnotes.

At the waist is a string with a stopper that you pull to get a snug fit. This string, along with the stretchiness, makes fitting to a figure with larger hips and smaller waist than would be common for males possible.

I'm female, and I have found that these shorts, while not designed for the female curves, provide for my pocket needs quite adequately when in a wetsuit, or just rash guard. In the winter I dive a drysuit which of course has nice big pockets.

The one thing about the scubapro shorts is that the bungee in the pockets to clip things to is too short and also too thin. I replaced mine, and since then I have seen others who have done the same.

I'm curious how many dives you have done in your scubapro shorts? While they are an attractive design, I wonder about their durability over time.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

FWIW: I have done the full circle. I started with a plastic pack and wing in 1977. I graduated to an integrated poodle jacket (disliked, but part of that was it was too big). Next I purchased a nice integrated back inflate unit. Finally I went to a traditional plate and wings. I enjoyed it so much I purchased a second one for travel.

Each was fully functional. Basically they are simple devices consisting of a bag of air and something to hold the tank. As I gained experience I went from simple to complex, then realized I really liked the ides of KISS and returned to basics. The pockets on the traditional BCD's were a joke IMO. To small, poorly positioned. Easy to drop things. I am sure the are some divers out their that either love their jacket because it works for them or they really don't care as long as they are diving. In warm water, the difference in performance is nil.

I found the BP/W more difficult to set up and takes more thought on how you want to set it up because there are too many options. Have you ever noticed the successful stores like Cost Co actually reduce the options you have. They found that they can make more money offering fewer choices because some people get scared when there are too many choices. That is a problem with BP/W.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That is one of the reasons that when I sell a plate and wing I thread the harness at no extra charge if the diver wants me to. I'll add the bungee loop for the inflator, set the d rings and inner tube or now neoprene retainers that come with the HOG harness, attach the crotch strap, and offer full email and phone support for the final adjustments. Those are easy and uncomplicated. There are also numerous articles on the net as to how to adjust the harness as well as the one that I wrote and again will send free to anyone who asks and provides an email address.

Adjusting the hardware is probably the easiest part because you set it where it works best for you. There is no right or wrong. If the D rings even on the chest work that's right for one person. Myself the right d ring is slightly lower due to a shoulder mobility issue. So it's right for me. Two of my rigs have custom "billy ring" style double d rings with a 1 inch loop of stainless off the bottom. Stages go on the front, spg and maybe a small reel on the rear, and can still hang a hammer, chisel, or other tool off the bottom for artifact recovery.

The rear crotch strap d ring is usually for an SMB and spool on fun dives. Working dives I hang my 400 ft reel from it that I move from the scooter ring once in the water. Then the SMB and spool go in a thigh pocket or on the right hip d ring.

A BPW offers only as many choices as you choose to find with it. If you want a multitude of them they are there. If you only want a few then have it set up, decide what style of diving you will likely do, and then leave it alone.

Where people get into trouble with them is the same area that all gear offers. New users try to make too many changes at once and without thinking them through. They act on the advice of shops that want to sell every new accessory, many of which are useless junk, on the advice of others who have no real experience with the particular piece of gear but saw somewhere that this or that will work, or they just don't give things a chance to sort themselves out and build muscle memory.

All four of my harnesses are set up essentially the same. So when diving singles or doubles certain items get put in the same place every time. Same with pockets. All of my suits have pockets on both thighs. Same items get put in them. There will be times when I don't carry three lights. I'll only have two.

I may not always have my can light. But two back ups, one on the harness and one in a pocket will be on every dive. Shears always in the right pocket along with the back up light. Wet notes/slate always in the left. Spare mask in the left. Jon line when called for in the left as well. I may also have a small spool in the right.

Nothing is dangling, everything is easy to access. I could not say that about my old jacket BC. The pockets were big yes but that was a problem as stuff got lost in them. And having to chicken wing my arm to get into them was a pain. there are also numerous options for pockets that hang from the waist belt and fasten around the thigh, smaller ones that slide onto the waist belt, and most useful of all, looking at your gear and with newer divers especially, realizing that you don't really need half of the crap you are carrying.

 

[meagicano]

I consider myself as having started in a bp/w. I did the pool sessions and the four open water dives in a jacket (rental equipment) then for dive #5, that weekend, I switched to a bp/w on loan from my instructor. The only reason I didn't use it on my OW dives is that we didn't want to "rock the boat" too much at the shop.

I was on the receiving end of many raised eyebrows and comments from other divers but in the past two years there seems to have been a move towards the bp/w. I no longer have to explain my gear choices at every club dive and give my buddy a quick tutorial in wings. I no longer have to explain my gear choices because some instructors and DMs are moving over to the configuration.

I went bp/w because I hated how bulky the traditional jackets felt. I'm a well endowed female and not having the big pockets, the cummerbund, etc felt incredibly freeing. I tried a friends back inflate (back when I was still the only person in our dive group with a bp/w) and while it didn't fill with air around my stomach I still felt like it was too much "stuff".

 

[PfcAJ]

I'm curious how many dives you have done in your scubapro shorts? While they are an attractive design, I wonder about their durability over time.

I don't think there's anything 'attractive' about those shorts

 

[eelnoraa]

This seems to be a controversial topics. I totally agreenthat bp/w is not forneveryone. I have lender a set of Bp/w to one of my dive buddies. Harness was perfectly fitted after a few adjustment. He also lost quite a few lb of lead. He also agreed that it is a more streamline setup, and had no issue getting in and out. But after a few monthes, he switched back to his zeagle ranger. The reason are exactly what brought up here: lack of pocket and integrated weight. Well, mine loaner doesn't have pockets or weight pockets. I respect his decision. And I realized, as everything else in the world, it is all personal preference.

as for why more people diving jackets than bp/w, I have the following observation/ personal experience. #1 is most people don't get the kinds exposure to bp/w as to jacket. Most shops either don't sell them, or even if they do, the sales don't know enough about them because they dont have the exposure themselves.
#2 is most ow instructors don't use them. Again for the same reason above. Further lessen students exposure to bp/w.
#3, not all "experienced" bp/w user use it properly. So when newbie ask them for advice, they got wrong information.
#4 because of #3, newbie even if they are open minded enought to try bp/w, they really can't get it right, could be mis adjust harness, wrong size wing,..... So after a few tries without satisfying result, they give up.

I would say those tried a properly configured and fitted bp/w, received properly training on how to use the rig, then decide it is not for them, belongs to a very small percentage of overall non bp/w user.