Another Al v.s SS BP

[tbone1004]

@Schwaeble university courses can do wonderful things when you don't have to care about money and pass rates like you do at dive shops.
Don't get too carried away though with trying to lift stuff off of the bottom, if you can pull a 10lb weight off of the bottom in a pool *most pools with diving wells will have the black rubber bricks under the lifeguard stands, or somewhere on the deck*, then you'll be OK.
The other measure, which is much safer than trying to kick things up from the bottom, is to just fully deflate your bc and stay at the surface. It won't account for wetsuit compression, but you can add that since you should know how positively buoyant your suit is. I.e. I know my 5mm is +12lbs, so if I'm factoring that into the equation, I will hop in with a full tank, empty bc, flood my suit, and see if I can hold a 12lb weight belt at the surface as a worst case scenario. I know I can, it is rather unpleasant and I wouldn't want to do it for any length of time, but I can. That is just using my legs. If I can use even one arm, that extra weight almost doubles. This is why I'm OK not using redundant buoyancy with my double 120's in a 5mm when quarry diving. I know it's a potential to get close to 30lbs negative if I have a really messed up wing failure *read elbow pops off at entry*, and I start going straight to the bottom, but I can feasibly get that up off of the bottom and the higher up you get, the easier it gets as the wetsuit decompresses. Not a safe thing to practice though, so better off to run the simulation at the surface where you can always drop the extra weight belt if you have to

 

[stuartv]

I am thinking about going to a BP/W as well, for travel purposes. I have a Zeagle Brigade now and with a steel 120 HP and no exposure suite I use 2 lbs of lead. When I wear a 3/2mm I am a little heavy with 4 lbs. I only plan to dive warm saltwater and use 120 steel tanks often. For travel I am more concerned with luggage space than I am weight. I want to be able to carry on only for short trips. Would an AL plate be better in this situation?

If your main concern is luggage space, you might consider the VDH Universal Back Plate, instead of a conventional back plate. It's only for diving with a single tank - it won't work with doubles - but it's pretty inexpensive, light, and it's narrow and flat, so it will take up the least space in your luggage.

Store - Vintage Double Hose

If I ever plan another dive trip where I'll be diving a single tank, I'm going to get one of these for myself.

 

[tbone1004]

@Streydog carryon only is no issue. You can get a full set of dive gear spare a wetsuit into a carryon with a weekends worth of clothes so long as you pack light on footwear especially and have fins that are short enough for that *I don't....* The key is putting the backplate in the middle where it is sandwiched between clothes to account for any bends as well as maximize the space in the rollaboard since there are nooks and crannies between the tubes for the handle. I basically lay tshirts/underwear in those nooks and crannies to pad it, followed by my backplate/cam bands *with my DSS plates, the cam bands would stay on the plate*, then regs and whatever else at the bottom, wing rolled up along one of the sides, and toiletries on the top. Mask, computer, etc in the foot pockets of fins, and it should be no problem getting everything into a carryon

 

[Schwob]

@ tbone1004:

Don't get too carried away though with...

All (above quote and what follows) good points. Thanks.
And I understand... and I won't get carried away to a point where things are not safe and safe for me means plenty of redundancy (BC, extra flotation (one or two 6' SMBs), droppable weight if necessary, and a buoy line next to me and maybe a "spotter" (that's a weight lifting thing isn't it - i mean capable buddy) should be plenty good... Anyway so yes, I will also look in staying at the surface with BC empty & some weighting and see how that feels... and now that I thought about it I am just dead curious how the difference between using one and two fins (not dropping a fin but electing not to use one to simulate a disabled leg or a lost fin) feels like... I mostly will be stuck with local diving this year and don't mind figuring things out (keeping busy during the dive) and don't minf adding to the "to do and to figure list"...

 

[tbone1004]

@Schwaeble you can get pretty good thrust out of frog kicking with just your legs vs flutter kicking so losing a fin is annoying but not the end of the world. The reality though is how many failures are you planning for?
In cave diving we plan for 2 catastrophic failures. Here it looks like you are planning for more than that. In recreational diving, your buddy is your redundant source or most things, so if you lose your bcd completely, then have your buddy help you. If you lose your bcd and your buddy, what are the odds of losing a fin or leg?

 

[Schwob]

@tbone1004:

... carryon only is no issue. You can get a full set of dive gear spare a wetsuit into a carryon with a weekends worth of clothes so long as you pack light on footwear especially and have fins that are short enough for that *I don't....* The key is putting the backplate in the middle where...

Well I use a lighter weight exactly legal carry on sized backpack not a roll on, but all good advise there.

If you don't mind: curious about those short fins (#1):
In you opinion (my current fins are too long for sure): What are good fins that are not too long for truly fitting inside carry on luggage - (stiffer tek dive type fins would be just fine for me)?
(#2) Some of those fins that might fall into that category just seem to be super heavy. If I seem to be able to trim myself out OK now w/o super heavy fins on the feet is there another reason for going with heavy fins over (if similarly stiff and durable (and maybe that's the issue) less weighty ones if there is a choice?
Well, with double 120HPs set up high enough so I reach the valves well enough I may like heavier fins at the feet, haven't tried that yet (but know I was a little top heavy with my very light fins whichever way I tried to alter the rig when I tried).... - Anyway, are there other reasons to go with heavy fins over lighter otherwise similar enough ones?

 

[tbone1004]

@Schwaeble i don't own fins that can fit in a carryon because i have really big feet 14EEE. The width is what murders me, not the length. I wear an XL jet fin if diving with a gym sock on, and a XXL in anything else. Those are BIG fins. If you have a normal sized foot, they should be fine. I am currently quite partial to the Deep6 Eddy fin. Their XL is a bit too small for me, but the XXL is beautiful. So for that, get what fits.

Regarding buoyancy, I can go back and forth with minimal issues in backmount. I try to avoid heavy fins in sidemount, but in backmount you can always change the moment arm by extending your feet a bit which I will do if diving doubles in neutrally buoyant fins. Deep6 should have a negatively buoyant version of their fin coming out later this year

 

[Schwob]

@TBone - yeah - I understand - and I don't mean to annoy anyone. Helpful stuff.
Look at it this way: I am old (not that old, but old enough to think about it), out of shape (working on it) and found a new love in diving... but in essence am a new diver with just for al intents and purposes 1 season of experience. Managed to get a little of a jump start that season, but won't be able to keep that up this year (vacation, work, family...)... So I want to get better at diving within the time and budget I have for it right now. Neither is that much, especially time. If I had more time I would already be head over heals into tech diving just to become better at diving (not because I know I will be a tech diver for real, but to find out and to be in a position to know if it's for me...) ... but I don't want to go there if I cannot keep it up and stay in good form and practice for it... but that's where I am at right now limited time and opportunity...
So it's not necessarily as much about what I am planning for for actual dives*** - for me it's more how I use the dives I may be able to get in this spring / summer / fall to get better, safer, smarter, more practiced ... and to give me something to do on "sightseeing wise" less interesting dives.... So putting myself in a situation of knowing how much I can comfortably do in some situation is better than reading what someone else can do... etc. but reading that is very helpful and "broadening the mind" - and grounding to reality - and just helpful....
So you are a full fledged tech diver and dive with other such divers in teams. You all know what you are doing and can trust that you all do... and you are all fully self reliant. Great. I am not at that point. I may be fully self reliant by now for what I am doing, but when I dive with a buddy, chances are it might be someone barely knowing what he/she is doing and I basically have another liability at my hands... Anyway I have yet to truly fully understand my personal safe operational envelope in various situations... So, I'll find out. And (safely) work on finding glaring deficiencies and (safely) work on those. So I am exploring "stuff to look into and get smarter about - hands on..." --- sorry if it sounds like I am planning for umpteen contingencies*** did not mean for it to come across that way...

***That said... Yes, true, I am ticking a bit on the simultaneously adventurous yet maybe overly cautious side - within reason ... and I am comfortable that way (works for me)...

 

[Schwob]

@Schwaeble i don't own fins that can fit in a carryon because i have really big feet 14EEE. ...

@TBone: Ha, you knew this was coming right? Have you considered that maybe you don't need fins at all?
Yeah, my feet are about a foot or so shorter (11) so, thanks for the pointers I will look into various specs and see what I can do to try some other fins...

 

[Lorenzoid]

@Schwaeble , have you considered a course such as GUE Fundamentals? The "balanced rig" is covered, as well as some other issues touched on in this thread. Safety is a major focus.