A Concerned Diver.

[Diver Tim]

I understand you should be connected, but literally I'd have to breath 4" from his face to use his octo.

Frankly, I'd suck a fart out of a donkey's ass if that's what it took to make it to the surface alive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm just sayin'.

 

[knowone]

Why be concerned. They know who you are anyway.
Stick with them. Variation is valuable. Organise an overnight trip and hide the mirrors. When they fall asleep draw a penis on their heads. You will bond and gain experience.

 

[JB]

Concerned diver: Diving is supposed to be a fun, exciting activity. I think too many people are out there posing and judging others, trying to feel superior. The most judgemental diver I was with, had a fight with his buddy and refused to do any more dives with him. Needless to say I was landed with this guy and watched him unknowingly kick a Gorgonian fan to death. So for all his posturing and posing and criticism of the other guy he was a "worse" diver, be careful it's hard to be objective when analysing your own performance. Better still get out there and enjoy diving for the underwater experience, and quit critiquing the other divers. Too much time is spent worrying about the technique of diving and too little enjoying the experience.
If you don't like some person or their behaviour, walk away, this is not about who's right and whose wrong, it's about where you are going to enjoy your diving. They might be equally critical of you being a "wet blanket" on every dive inhibiting their enjoyment. Getting on the board to drum up support is not going to change them, just as it's not going to change you. Move on!

 

[knowone]

I've never seen anyone snap a Gorgonian. I'm very happy about that. Have to go and visit some and say g'day.

 

[Krenath]

Your gear configuration seems to be based on cave or DIR/GUE

I think if his gear were based on a DIR/GUE setup, he'd have been more familiar with the idea of his buddy using an Air2 and donating his primary.

I do think that checking out DIR/GUE would expand his horizons in a direction he might enjoy.

 

[HJeffreyM]

Let's face it...YOU are ulimately responsible for your own safety on each and every dive. Every decision you make, including who to dive with and under what circumstances, is YOUR responsibility. Whatever it is THEY are doing that "concerns" you, you don't have to worry about it if YOU make the decision not to dive with them.

Stop worrying about other people's dive habits and concern yourself with finding a group of people who share your own. They're out there...

 

[concernediver]

hmm sounds like you should have asked what the air2 procedure is with an air2 the diver donates his primary from his mouth and then he breathes of the air2. the victim doesn't breath off of his air2

My mistake, I mis-typed, yes you take the primary. I meant that his primary seems so short, like the octo on a dir/gue setup.

You seem to have a hang-up about people who use computers. You seem to imply that anyone using a computer should, somehow, be double checking everything the computer says against the tables.

This is incorrect. Comparing a computer to the tables is a useless gesture. The 2 methods use completely different paradigms. Tables are based on a square dive profile. Computers are a multilevel models capable of including information that the tables can't, such as: the computer can make adjustments according to your actual rate of ascent, not a theoretical rate.

You're not going to get the same answers from the tables and a computer. There's no good reason to compare them.

I realize that computers are much more accurate in determining NDL, maybe I just don't like the thought of relying so much on one piece of gear. Then again, if a computer dies, I'm sure as hell aborting the dive.

you qualify as a new diver and a new poster. My personal opinion is that you should be given the benefit of the doubt. So, while I don't understand your insistence that someone should plan their dives with tables [edit after post: "(as opposed to planning a dive with a computer dive planner)"], I might be missing something and you are welcome to your opinion. You clearly have a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong, and you hold yourself to a high standard (which is admirable). You hold others to that same standard (which may not be realistic). Your gear configuration seems to be based on cave or DIR/GUE - I submit that you will find very high standards in those environments, and you will likely thrive in those two (non-mutually exclusive) circles.

Maybe I do. I would like to get into dir/gue, however in many years and many more dives later.

I'd be wiling to wager that, in the grand world of diving, the VAST majority of divers are running their decompression by their computers. I'm not even sure there is anything wrong with that -- but I do think people ought to understand something about what the computer is DOING and what the output from it means, in order to know how best to use the information. Tables are ridiculously limiting on many types of dives (eg. shore dives) unless you do a bunch of mental processing and keep your tables memorized. I don't think every diver, particularly those who don't dive often, need to do that or probably even can. It takes practice.

More important is safe gas management, and most people don't get taught that. Experienced divers will have a gut sense of what they can do with a given tank.

But nobody should have to dive in situations (mob dives) or with people they don't want to dive with. Your current problem is to find buddies who want to dive the way YOU do. You've got to be creative. If you sit there and say your current situation is the only diving available to you, then you either have to adapt to it or not dive. Otherwise, perhaps you can discuss your concerns with someone from the group who seems to be receptive, and see if you can agree to dive together under different parameters?

I agree with you, most people probably don't look at tables. But scuba diving is a sport very heavily based in the science realm. Gas laws and bubble theory, mostly.

Luckily, that's the one thing the people in our group can do, determining PSI for each stage of the dive, PSI to use on bottom, turn around, and ascent/emergency.

I will bring up my concerns later this year and find a buddy that I will dive with exclusively, hopefully.

 

[concernediver]

I'm just sayin'.

I've seen that quote before, very funny.

Concerned diver: Diving is supposed to be a fun, exciting activity. I think too many people are out there posing and judging others, trying to feel superior. The most judgemental diver I was with, had a fight with his buddy and refused to do any more dives with him. Needless to say I was landed with this guy and watched him unknowingly kick a Gorgonian fan to death. So for all his posturing and posing and criticism of the other guy he was a "worse" diver, be careful it's hard to be objective when analysing your own performance. Better still get out there and enjoy diving for the underwater experience, and quit critiquing the other divers. Too much time is spent worrying about the technique of diving and too little enjoying the experience.
If you don't like some person or their behaviour, walk away, this is not about who's right and whose wrong, it's about where you are going to enjoy your diving. They might be equally critical of you being a "wet blanket" on every dive inhibiting their enjoyment. Getting on the board to drum up support is not going to change them, just as it's not going to change you. Move on!

I don't perform like an fish underwater yet. Can that be blamed partly on my gear, yes, as I still rent a wetsuit and BC. However, I can still work on my skills underwater. I'm not talking about performance but rather basic dive practices, watching you buddy, etc.

I think if his gear were based on a DIR/GUE setup, he'd have been more familiar with the idea of his buddy using an Air2 and donating his primary.

I do think that checking out DIR/GUE would expand his horizons in a direction he might enjoy.

My mistake, I was typing fast and I meant to say, I would have to breath close to his face to use his primary, it's so short like the octo on a dir/gue setup.

 

[Roko]

I feel like I am solo diving with a twist of buddy diving. Because none of us have "Set" buddies, you don't look out for the other divers as much, as it is difficult to watch over 7 other people.

Why don't you single out someone in your group who doesn't have habits that bother you, and ask to buddy with them for that dive? You can all dive as a group, but if you can find just one person you can somewhat trust and come to an agreement that you'll be buddies and stick together on the dive, it doesn't matter what the rest do.. You can't always rely on someone else to step up to the plate and say "Hey, we should buddy up" if you won't say it yourself. If no-one in your group likes that idea, then as mentioned many times already, maybe they're not a group you want to be diving with.

Also, just some food for thought on your comment about wreck diving at the top... What's the difference between diving outside of a sanitized "tourist" wreck and diving around a pile of rocks?. If he's going inside the wreck that's stupid without training and experience, but diving outside of a sanitized artificial reef type wreck is not really much different than diving around a pile of rocks. It just sounds sexier, and PADI would have trouble selling a "Pile of Rocks Diver" cert card.

 

[AZFlyingDiver]

My 2 cents:

-Definitely buddy up with someone, even if you're in a "group"; talk over a dive plan with your buddy, and dive it.

-Let the others in your group know what you're doing, "hey guys, so-and-so and I'll be buddied up - we'll tag along for a while and might split off - if we end up separated from you guys, we'll meet and be at the float until xx:xx and on-shore after that..." - you get the idea. This seems obvious, but goes a long way to avoid confusion when you & buddy or the others surface and wonder what's next...

-Doing the above can actually begin to set an example for the rest of the group - heck, they may even get the same idea to buddy-up, too

-After buddying up, making a plan and, of course, BWARF'ing , don't worry too much about the rest of the group or how they're diving. I started out vacation diving on cattle boats, and if I worried about how safe or capable everyone was then, I'd have worried myself right out of the water (it's a wonder I became a DM!).

-After being safe, most of all enjoy the diving and the people you're with. If you don't like the people, find people you like - plenty of 'em out there, trust me!