AOW/Rescue Diver Not Respected

[Aguablanco1]

Since we are now talking safety here how about every time one rents a car they have to pass a drivers test since it would be easier to kill oneself and many more people than could be killed in a scuba incident. Most people don't even take drivers ed anymore, they mostly learn like an apprentice, on the job. How about renting a boat or jet ski, should a test be required? While these examples are somewhat absurd they seem to be a logical extension of where this thread is going. I believe that the C-cards I have are like a drivers license, except they have no expiration date.
RichH

 

[Killerflyingbugs]

I think a test should be given for boats/jet skis, the things I have seen would probabally have you agree

I see where you are coming from, I think if most people that rented cars only drove 1 day a year and constantly ran into stuff and all kinds of crazy things, they would be a bit more cautious.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@Aguablanco1, I'm glad you admit the absurdity of those analogies.

In renting a car, the rental agency has no more involvement once the customer drives off. The driver can drive wherever he wants. On a dive boat, the crew, possibly including a divemaster, are involved with the diver from the time the boat leaves until it returns. The dive boat can choose to take divers to easy sites, challenging sites, etc. Also, the legal system has pretty well established that a rental agency is insulated from responsibility for accidents caused by the driver/renter who presented a valid driver's license. In contrast, in the scuba world a c-card may not be given the same weight in a lawsuit. A c-card is evidence that the dive op acted reasonably in serving a diver, but it may or may not be enough by itself. In other words, as much as you say you'd like it to be this way, it isn't clear whether a valid c-card is by itself sufficient to insulate a dive op from liability. I think this uncertainty motivates dive ops to look further.

Also, I would guess that the majority of people who rent cars drive regularly. In contrast, a great many divers show up at dive ops having done little to no diving in the past year. Some do just one dive vacation annually. There is a lot to remember and a lot of muscle memory involved in diving. Driving a car is a pretty common activity, and even people who don't drive every day are exposed to cars, driving, and the rules of the road by being passengers, observing, etc. A driver who hasn't driven in a year doesn't forget which pedal is which, because he's exposed to cars and driving all the time, but divers who haven't dived in a while fumble with which button is the inflator and which is the deflator.

As for renting a boat, I have to admit it has long amazed me how little is required to rent a small power boat. Depending on where the boat is going to be taken, I think a boater really should have to take a short test to show they know the rules of the road. I guess it all depends on the circumstances. Lake versus ocean, etc. Renting a sailboat as a bareboat charter in the Caribbean, the rental outfit may very well want to see your logbook.

edit: killerflyingbugs posted while I was typing and said pretty much the same thing in many fewer words!

 

[eelnoraa]

At least on the late near my home, renting a dingy will require a written test on top of a sailing certificate. they want to know at least I know sailing on paper.

 

[tursiops]

A diver's license must be renewed periodically, and can be taken away. It is indeed a license, not a certificate that one took a driver's ed course and has not driven since. Bad analogy. Try again.

 

[Prostardiver]

My instructor was once called upon to do a simple skills test before he was allowed to do a dive.
The dive op put him and other divers in a pool with a big observation window. He was asked to remove and replace his mask.
He took it off, turned away from the window, replaced it, cleared it and turned back to show the DM his mask perfectly on and cleared...UPSIDE DOWN. The DM flipped him the bird and waved him on.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Why give them a refund? You spent time, effort, resources to conduct the class. Should you not be paid? Does a driving school give a refund when a road test is failed? Does a college return school fees when a degree is not earned? Foolish to refund monies.

Because this is extremely rare at this point and not worth the hassle.

 

[FrancoV]

I'm very new to diving, but wish everywhere did check outs.
I've only 26 dives , all within the last 2.5-3 months. I take it very seriously and work very hard to excel at it. I'm AOW and RD certed and I dive every week either recreational or doing ocean cleanups.
I'm in Hawaii so recreationally I'm often around groups of very incompetent tourist divers.
I tend to stay 5-10' to the back, front or side of the groups . . I'm often the least experienced on the boat but even I can see which are really bad divers.
There was a couple once who had about 100 dives between them. Him about 40, her around 60.
He didn't have a computer so he decided to stay within inches of me the entire time with very bad buoyancy and all around control -always right there bumping me and on my shoulder. She, despite the reminders given to all on the boat, jumped in without weights and at bottom was so rude regarding getting right in front of others for photo taking. I hated having them along and voiced it to the dive op divers about them later. Turns out she had the audacity to write a bad review about the op on Travelocity or one of them because she forgot to put weight in her own equipment.
Long story short, there's some really bad but experienced divers out there and I wouldn't have a complaint in the world about getting checked out.
Besides, it's not only for your safety but it feels good to be a capable beginner and get complimented by vets to the sport . .

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I do plan on asking PADI about exactly that. Does the requirement for a course translate to an adventure dive? Common sense would say yes, but common sense doesn't apply universally.

I received today from PADI the self-reliant diver instructor guide. I don't see any reason why the first dive couldn't be taught in AOW. I don't think there is anything in the first dive of that course that would be beyond an inexperienced diver who still hasn't demonstrated that he/she won't lose their **** in a stressful situation. I can see the reason for the 100 dive requirement for the second dive in the course, however.

@tursiops. I spoke with PADI today, and as a self-reliant instructor, I am able to include the first self-reliant dive as an adventure dive for a student with less than 100 dives. However, if a student wishes to become certified as a self-reliant diver, then he/she must have 100 dives prior to the course starting.

 

[DustyC]

Since we are now talking safety here how about every time one rents a car they have to pass a drivers test since it would be easier to kill oneself and many more people than could be killed in a scuba incident. Most people don't even take drivers ed anymore, they mostly learn like an apprentice, on the job. How about renting a boat or jet ski, should a test be required? While these examples are somewhat absurd they seem to be a logical extension of where this thread is going. I believe that the C-cards I have are like a drivers license, except they have no expiration date.
RichH

Huge difference, profit motive and liability.

Shops get paid to turn out c cards for students. They have insurance to cover them if sued, and they'll just lie and say the student demonstrated a standard adequately.

The issuing authorities for a driver's license don't have any motivation at all in issuing a driver's license. And bad behavior gets them taken away. So it's a pretty absurd comparison.