Difference in steel tanks

[truck1]

Steel HP120's are what I use, that and the steel HP100. The HP100 is the perfect tank, it's almost exactly like an AL80 but has 23 cf more air. Assuming you can get a full fill that is.

If you suck air the larger tank isn't really the solution you think it is because you're still limited by the air in his tank. Think of it this way, if you had a tank failure of some sort and lost your air you need to use who's air? If your buddy is using an AL80 you still have the same limits you did on your own AL80. Now for you with the number of dives you have your SCR should be pretty good and the larger tanks may work well for you, especially if you're going to use Nitrox.

IMO the larger tanks are great for one thing, diving Nitrox because if you have the low SCR needed you can extend your dive times with the larger tank. IMO if I was you and wanting a larger tank I'd buy the steel HP100's and that will be fine. The buoyancy is good, weight is good, air is more than an AL80 and later can be doubled up and still not kill your back.

Generally speaking I dont suck air,and dive nitrox.I generally come up a good 500 psi above everyone else on al80s when I dive the same.I have 3 tanks which are in the luxfer slc range and want to replace them.I plan on using the 120s for lobstering off a beach where I will run out of air before bottom time or reefs where i do burn more air than normal lobstering.In those instances, I do run out of air before bottom time.
I might rent a 100 as a comparison since I have used 120 and 131 before.

 

[CompuDude]

I *think* I just saw a faber 140 in Hollywood divers!
Didn't stop too much to see though. It looked like a faber and I believe it said 140 on it.
A monster for sure!

Oh, that beast? It's a Faber 149. I'm familiar with it. Bill trys to sell it to me every time I walk in. LOL They picked it up on a lark when they placed their first big Faber order. My buddy was part of that order, he picked up two HP100's and has been very happy with them.

If you want a tank with roughly the same capacity as a hp120 but a shorter length try a hp119. The 119 is an eight inch diameter tank that is only 24 inches long.

Correct. I have one and love it! Exact same height as my HP100s (also Worthington) but 8" instead of 7.25". Perfect fit in the back of my Element. It's my standard boat diving tank... it's a little heavy for most beach dives, unless I'm going particularly deep.

 

[mike_s]

Yes, the Faber tank has a YOKE and DIN hookup via the Thermo K valve. [snip].

Maybe you're using the term "Thermo Pro valve" as a generic term here referencing the removable yoke insert., but new Faber tanks don't come with Thermo Pro Valves unless they have specifically changed out or ordered by the LDS w/o a valve and the valve added later.

The Faber tanks are distributed in the US by Blue Steel Inc. "Blue Steel" puts a valve on it labeled "Blue Steel" on the lower part of the valve. It's similar to the Thermo Pro Valve in that the Yoke insert in the DIN is removable, but it's not the same valve. I'm pretty sure it's a San-o-sub

I recently also learned that you can't use the 'brass fill adapters' with the DIN part of the valve to use a yoke fill connector. The brass adapter outlet bottoms out in the back of the valve on a Blue Steel. It doesn't do this on a Thermo. So the inside depth of the Blue Steel valve is shallower than the Thermo. I think it might be a 5 thread verses a 7 thread, but I need to verify that. But FYI.

The valves also have a different visual appearance also.

Thermo Pro Valve

Blue Steel Valve sold on Faber Tanks
http://www.bluesteelllc.com/valves_files/image005.jpg

Same valve on San-o-Sub website
http://www.sanosub.com/subacqueo/valvol9.jpg

 

[Tigerman]

Yes, 300 BAR DIN regs fit and work fine on the 200 BAR DIN valves. The 200 BAR DIN will not work with a 300 BAR DIN valve, they leak air because they're too short. If you got a 300 BAR DIN reg it will work with everything out there, it just won't work the opposite way.

When the monkey tried to fill my tank and I had to show him how to do it (eek), he tried to plug it to the 300 bar DIN connector which was too long to even be screwed into my 200 bar DIN valve?

 

[cummings66]

I am telling you, a 300 bar din regulator fits perfectly fine in any other din valve. I've done it hundreds of times, my lds has done it thousands of times. It works. A 300 bar din hookup will fit any other din valve out there assuming there's not problems with the valve or the plug, they're somewhat delicate. In fact if you were here I'd prove it, my stage bottle is the Thermo K valve which is not 300 bar, my regulator is a 300 bar din. I could plug it into either tank with no air leaks. I can send you a video if you doubt the truth of it. I've done it for years, it works.

The way the system is designed a 200 bar din regulator will not fit a 300 bar din valve, it's too short and air will leak past it, it's a pressure concern. You do not hook a 200 bar device to something that delivers 300 bar without expecting fireworks. The hole will release the air safely preventing fireworks. That's why a 200 bar will not work in a 300 bar system, but the 300 bar works in a 200 bar. The 300 bar din regulator will fit a 200 bar valve and stick out farther, but the tit on it will connect and seal because it can handle the pressure. That's what's important. That hole you see in the end of the 300 bar din valve is where the air leak will happen if the regulator is of the wrong (read shorter) length. Thats why a 300 bar din regulator will fit them all, or it should if everything is fine.

You say you still don't believe me? Then read this, I didn't write it. I'm telling you the honest truth of the matter. Your problem with the shop monkey should not have occurred, he did the right thing with the 300 bar fill whip. It should have worked fine no matter what size valve you have, unless his whip was damaged which happens to the 300 bar tit. Not exactly uncommon. You might have the blue steel valve since it seems to be different than everybody else. I know the thermo K works, possibly you have the other. I'm going to see if I can locate my brass fill adaptor and see what it looks like again. I think it's a hacked version of a 300 bar din plug, I don't think it matches up dimensionally to 300 bar if I recall mine correctly.

http://diveriteexpress.com/library/valves.shtml#dinfaq

 

[Tigerman]

Considering the compressor he used is used on a reguar basis to fill 300 bar SCBA tanks, it shouldnt be damage and it also was attempted on two differnt compressors on two different locations. the 300 bar plugs was just too long to screw it onto the valve..
Ill have a look on the valve when I get home and see if it does say blue steel on it, but I dont think it does. Then again, It could be the same issue with a different brand since Im not in the US..

 

[cummings66]

When the monkey tried to fill my tank and I had to show him how to do it (eek), he tried to plug it to the 300 bar DIN connector which was too long to even be screwed into my 200 bar DIN valve?

I believe I know why your fill shop had problems. He had an adaptor on the YOKE whip didn't he?

I looked at my brass adaptor, it's by Sherwood but I've never had to use it anywhere, not yet anyways. It has a long tit on it, I wish I knew what to call that protrusion, but what happens on 200 bar valves is that tit bottoms out before the O ring seats and it allows air to leak past it. Just like somebody else said happened to the other brand 200 bar din valve.

I have been talking regulators in all the postings as you should have noticed, I examined my Apeks and Sherwood DIN regulators ( I have more than one), they're all 300 bar and the tit is half the length of the brass fill adaptor. It would work (and it does because I use those 300 bar regulators on my 200 bar din tank) because the O ring will seat.

So, I think the dive shop has an adaptor like mine that's not going to work on anything other than a 300 bar valve unless they grind the tit down to size. I think I might do that to mine now that I see it and I do have stage bottles using 200 bar DIN valves. That way if I do go somewhere out in the middle of nowhere and all they have is YOKE I can still get the stage bottle filled. I've never seen an issue to date, but it could happen.

So, the lesson is a 300 bar regulator will work anywhere, but the fill adaptors may not work everywhere because they are not the same as the regulator. Maybe somebody can say why they built it that way. I mean it fills the 300 bar din, but not 200 bar. That's backwards if it was a pressure concern.

 

[cummings66]

Considering the compressor he used is used on a reguar basis to fill 300 bar SCBA tanks, it shouldnt be damage and it also was attempted on two differnt compressors on two different locations. the 300 bar plugs was just too long to screw it onto the valve..

SCBA is quite different which means he definitely has an adaptor on it. Per my previous post I know why it didn't work. PS, 200 bar 5 threads, 300 bar 7 threads. Not much difference, and as I said it's not too long. Yes it sticks out a tad farther but it's not an issue, the threads are not of concern. What matters is that you still have 5 threads locking it and the O ring seals it. You'll have unused threads in other words. No problem, as it's meant to be. The tit lengths are 7mm on the fill adaptor and 2mm on the regulators. That's approximate, I didn't have a good device to measure it with and used a cloth tape measure. You can see with my fill adaptor being 3 times longer how it would cause leakage.

 

[Tigerman]

There is no adaptor, the SCBA they use have 300 bar (and some 200 bar) DIN valves..
What he did first btw was to try connect my 200 bar DIN valve to the 300 bar DIN outlet using a yoke adapter.. good going..

 

[cummings66]

SCBA is a CGA 346 and CGA 347 connector. DIN 477 No. 13 and the DIN 477 No. 56 are the 300 and 200 bar connectors. They should not be the same, at least over here they are different. Your country may be different and as you're saying they are different. Here I'd tell you that the CGA 347 connector will not fill a 300 bar DIN tank without an adaptor.

Basically you have high and low pressure SCBA setups as you do DIN setups. Here at least. We're often backwards in the US. I have not found any reference to what your country would use as a connector on the scba system. I would have thought it to be a standard since there's only a handful of companies that sell firefighting gear like this all over the world. If a person thinks scuba is tough to find stuff on, look at firefighting stuff. In any event, your leak on the fill had to have something to do with the connector not matching up to the standard.