Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[TMHeimer]

No, I never said anything remotely like that. I just wrote a post in which I said that many short classes, including the one I took myself, were accomplished by violating standards. That's not good. How you can read that post and say I am making the preposterous statement that shorter classes are always better is beyond me.

I said that people mistakenly believe that more time on task is always better. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. Unless you see the class, you can't tell.

Yeah, in re-reading this revived thread, I thinks this kinda tells it all. It's really hard to compare different "eras" of diving classes. Or longer vs. shorter. Logically, longer should be better--but it depends on what you're doing in the "longer" class. It's also hard to compare scuba instructors to classroom teachers, or professors if you like. There's a lot of information out there on any subject you choose. I think I probably used 20% of my college knowledge in teaching Band all those years. One of my strong points was directing HS jazz bands. I had no course training in that and only after years and years did I dip my toe into "playing at" jazz (as they say).
One constant would be that teachers of scuba or any subject vary greatly in ability to teach. That will never change.
I think it depends on which area of your subject you concentrate on as a teacher. An OSWI who teaches only OW will not have to have any real knowledge of tech. diving. Nice to have and mention to a class, but not as important as knowing as much about the OW material and the myriad of problems that could occur.
Likewise, the majority of my teaching involved young concert bands--1st and 2nd year players a majority of the time. My conducting skills didn't need to be of a level to teach a very accomplished HS Band (though I have conducted college and professional bands a time or two).

How much teaching information needs to be covered to teach an OW, AOW or Rescue course? Enough to justify a 4 year degree?
I asked a question years ago on SB which was replied to by TS&M. I was wondering why so many topics get re-hashed. And I had only been on SB maybe 3 years. How much is there to know. I know very little about tech., just pretty much what it is. But other than that, I find very few discussions that cover something new. Lynn replied that it's nice to get new and fresh opinions on some of the same old subjects (to paraphrase).

 

[CT-Rich]

Yep, I was certified in 1980 (we just got a plastic card) and we did deco dives on paper and had to know all the Gas laws. We had crappy oral inflate horse collar BCs and we buddy breathed and did rescue tows and mouth to snorkel respiration (I did it with a 260 lbs football player that chewed tobacco).

Three hours per class, half in lecture, half in the pool. We were expected to carry the tanks for the ladies. After we did our three open water dives, I never saw my instructor again. Good luck, don’t kill yourself.... No yelp reviews. No online reviews. Skin diver magazine, the local dive club and what ever you heard at the dive shop.

I did take an AI course in college a couple of years later, but that really cover the same ground original certification, but when we did a skill, it was supposed to look good....

 

[tursiops]

I've kind of lost the bubble in this thread.
What is the point of all the war stories?
My first scuba class was in the mid-60s, but I can't imagine how talking about it contributes usefully to the issue of whether diver training has been watered down or not. It has clearly gotten shorter, much more focused and efficient, and with no harassment, but I don't see see how that makes it more watered down. The only thing sadly gone is the arguably overemphasis on swimming skills and watermanship, but everything else seems better and there is more stuff, too. How is that watered down?

 

[TrimixToo]

It's a miracle we survived to tell the war stories, actually. SPGs were not standard. Horse collars were the norm without power inflaters. "What's buoyancy control?" Navy dive tables that were based on the best they knew at the time...which wasn't much. The OW card (all there was) was a license to do anything that could be done underwater with little experience at it and, for much of it, just class work with no practical instruction. WOB, gas density, serious use of helium, ICD risk, the carotid sinus reflex, seemingly a thousand other "little" things were unknown and untaught.

Today's gear, and training, are a lot better. That doesn't mean I don't chafe at some of the increments, though.

 

[Colliam7]

The retrospectroscope always has a rosy lens!

Back in the day:

I went to school from 8 to 5 each day. Sports participation was mandatory. I actually had to walk 5 blocks, from our apartment to the school bus stop in the morning, and back again in the evening - nobody pulling up in front of the school to drop me off and pick me up each day. In the winter, that meant walking home as it was getting dark. I got a REAL education in elementary school, junior high and high school.

I worked summer jobs for less than minimum wage.

I had an economics faculty member in university who actually penalized students for missing class to engage in student protests (of our invasion of Cambodia at the time).

I actually had to work nights and weekends (lots of them) in my residency and fellowship.

I could physically climb into the engine compartment of my pick-up truck, and remove and replace the carburetor. And, car exteriors were made of REAL metal, not plastic.

Man, I must somehow be better than other people because of that tough experience, right? After all, I earned my grades, my pay, my accomplishments.

Actually, all of that is pretty much irrelevant, to everyone (including my children) except possibly me. That was then. This is now. Times change. Education changes. Training changes. Equipment changes. The workplace changes. The list goes on. I respect divers for how they dive today, not how they trained 40 years ago. My students (should) respect me for how good a teacher I am today, not how I learned to teach 40 years ago.

What really hasn't changed are values and principles: Be as good as you can be, using whatever equipment you have available, to the extent that your body and mind allow you. Continue learning, irrespective of how old you are. Keep up with changing technology. Use good judgement in whatever you do. Treat others, young and old, with appropriate respect.

I am not the diver I was once. I am much, much better in so many ways, but I am not as physically able in some ways. What I could do X years ago, what I had to go through to become a diver X years ago, doesn't really matter. What I do today, and how I do it, when I strap on my rig, does.

And, war stories are OK, just don't dwell on them, or let them define who you are NOW. Save them for a gathering of like-aged and like-minded friends in a bar somewhere, and otherwise leave them in the closet. A year ago, I got together with 3 boyhood friends, guys that I shared a lot of interesting times and memorable experiences with. We had a blast, reliving adventures from 50 years ago (memories as clear as if the events had happened yesterday), drinking to excess, or at least to the extent that health would now allow. And, we will do it again sometime. But, that was all about THEN. And, we thoroughly enjoyed it. When we walked out of the bar, we had to confront, and live in, NOW.

 

[The Chairman]

What is the point of all the war stories?

What is the point any tale of daring do? I mean, really? I saw lots of crappy divers crawling all over the place in the 70s, so the instruction wasn't any more 'effective' back then. It was different, and we've evolved. I'm glad we've evolved. Smarter, more efficient and trim & buoyancy are getting a long needed emphasis.

 

[Saniflush]

I heard an interesting take on this over the weekend.

So my brother in law certified with NAUI about 25 years ago, did his vacation dives, and then never dove again. After seeing how much Mrs Flush and I enjoy diving every chance we get he decided to go through certification again and start diving with us. We/he felt that starting back at square one was the best thing to do. Over the course of the last three weeks he has been going through his online materials and then this past weekend he did all of his confined water. This is neither to endorse or not endorse the original topic only to throw out a couple of observations that he made regarding the difference between then and now.

1) He says in his case, the online course structure was far and away the better of the two experiences. He felt more ready and well versed for the skills and knowledge that he would need in the pool than the "laborious hours in front of a white board".

2)The online segments are "put together for the MTV generation" but it was useful to him as well and made attention and retention easier. (of course I then pointed out to him that he and I were the MTV generation not the folks now, but I take his point)

I remembered this topic and found these two observations interesting whether or not they are really true.

 

[USdiver1]

Sure there are myriad improvements and advances in technology that have occurred in the past 40 some years, many of which have entered the "required or great to have" realm of recreational scuba diving equipment: SPGs, Octos, BCs, Computers, Nylon 2 sided wet suits, Graphite Fins, Silicone Masks, the list goes on and on.

We also have made great strides in public safety in general with EMTs in most, if not all of our communities, Portable rescue Oxygen kits, Automatic Emergency Defibrillators [AEDs], 9-1-1 Emergency phone systems, DAN, the availability of hyperbaric chambers.

Nobody is disputing that these are welcomed advances and contribute to divers safety and enjoyment of their sport. I think the emphasis on training has been to move away from the water skills [we used to swim, swim and then swim some more] and has more to do with the fact that we do fewer shore dives, and that we now have personal floatation devices in our BCs. In most instances, we are only a short distance away from EMTs, Oxygen, AEDs, chambers. This reduction in a valuable survival skill [watermanship] I view as inevitable, although it is not necessarily in the interest of the individual participating in our sport.

Likewise, the lack of theoretical training in the physics and physiology of diving is a disservice to the student, from the inability to be able to make informed decisions as to certain risks associated with diving, because it was not taught. Some aspects of the physics of diving that were part of the basic scuba course back in the day, are not even addressed until Divemaster or Technical diving classes, this should not be. Redundancy in the form of two computers is still a poor substitute of knowing how to dive from tables, and pre-planning your dives.

Not that progress is always sought, does anybody remember the PADI war on Nitrox of about 25 years ago? Not all changes are met with open arms by the various agencies involved in diver training.

What would I like to see vis-a-vis online scuba education? I whole heartedly think that the Youtube videos depicting the necessary skills for diving are a fantastic means to demonstrate to the student what minimum skills are required for the sport, and I encourage all divers to watch them [or at least the better ones]. Also there are curiosity based videos, like watching the air escape from cut hp and lp hoses, etc. These should be required viewing for students as well.

As far as reading material goes, I favor the NOAA diving manual. In excerpted form it would make a great text for recreational divers, from OW up through professional training. I would put more emphasis on the physics and physiology of diving, so that students could understand some of the whys and wherefores of DCS, embolisms, narcosis, dehydration, hypothermia, etc., risks that are inherent to our sport.

 

[kelemvor]

We also have made great strides in public safety in general with EMTs in most, if not all of our communities, Portable rescue Oxygen kits, Automatic Emergency Defibrillators [AEDs], 9-1-1 Emergency phone systems, DAN, the availability hyperbaric chambers.

Unfortunately, some of those things are a "one step forward, two steps back" type of thing. Specifically, the availability of hyperbaric chambers to treat dive injuries has been declining for several years now. The Disappearing Recompression Chamber: Undercurrent 09/2013

We need more community funded chambers like Catalina.

 

[AfterDark]

I've kind of lost the bubble in this thread.
What is the point of all the war stories?
My first scuba class was in the mid-60s, but I can't imagine how talking about it contributes usefully to the issue of whether diver training has been watered down or not. It has clearly gotten shorter, much more focused and efficient, and with no harassment, but I don't see see how that makes it more watered down. The only thing sadly gone is the arguably overemphasis on swimming skills and watermanship, but everything else seems better and there is more stuff, too. How is that watered down?

You may view them as war stories, I view them as comparisons, what was then, what is now. You are welcome to your opinion as I am mine. Evidence of the differences are contained in those comparisons; CT-Rich's post contained a statement to the effect that after he was certified he never saw his instructor again. Today it seems like a majority of certified divers wouldn't ever dive again if they couldn't / didn't see their instructor or at least a DM post certification. Ask a newly certified diver to explain in detail why breath holding during ascent is dangerous. Most don't know why of what they do or don't do or can only give simple answers. Most divers of old would have answered differently. IMO todays training is a tactic used to keep the sport alive and profitable. If every diver has to be a better than average swimmer then a whole lot of people are excluded.
If every diver needs to understand physics of diving, rescue,be self-reliant etc, etc.... then the sport would probably be quite different today, if it was still around at all, except maybe for hard core DIY types, much like the way it started. A lot of people want to dive a few times a year in warm clear water. Todays training is aimed right at them, for the others there is tech training. At least that's what I see and read.