How fit are you for a Rescue ?

[dmaziuk]

So it seems to me that so long as you don't attempt something you were not trained to do, you shouldn't hesitate to attempt to put your training into action.

In a sane jurisdiction that may work, but I wouldn't in all fairness call my planet "sane jurisdiction". I was instructed in CPR (actually, separately for roadside emergencies and for drownings) a very long time ago in a country that doesn't exist, and have no certificates, valid or otherwise, to prove it. I'm pretty sure that legally I am not trained to perform CPR and by your logic should never attempt it. Even if your life depended on it.

 

[Remy B.]

Remy, there are all kinds of situations where Rescue Training would benefit a diver - and for a tech diver, it's not likely to be body recovery related, either. I'm going to post about this from three different perspectives below.



Finally, sometimes the accidents you are involved with have nothing to do with diving. A few years ago, a kid drowned swimming in a pond where we were diving. After pulling him out of the water it was obvious we were too late although CPR was tried. But if we had been made aware of the situation earlier and just gotten to him five minutes quicker, his life may have been saved. And having a rescue class would definitely be beneficial for that type of situation.

I agree with you, but I think all are missing the point of the video, it is about not becoming the second victim, rule #1 in Rescue.

Like you mention it is not only about diving, it apply to any regular water activities, how in shape are you to do it successfully.

And if one get to do a rescue, it is more for recreational conditions and Lite-Deco's.

Once you get in Tec diving you know you are signing in for a lot of risk involved, where it can come to make those hard decisions on should I surface and play dices or not

Tec diving as well teach you not to enter in those situations or foresee them and press the abort bottom before you get that far, and nobody will ask questions.

Technical shore dives are for the most part far from shore, so there is not only the Deco obligations that you can decide to blowout, is the distance to shore, if it is a Boat dive that makes it easy, yes you may can decide to blowout your Deco, or send the Yellow SMB and hope somebody see it quickly enough to take over and avoid being second victim.

It reminds me of a Dutch/South African diver, famous for discovering the Coelacanth, where his long time buddy ran for the surface ( under unknown circumstances ) and he followed to help her get onboard and try to help with CPR, he died next to her, that was as well a deep dive, with bad surface logistics.
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Going back to the essence of the video

The question is more for the Rec divers and Instructors ( which I see a lot that they don't keep them self to the recommended shape in what a Diver shall be ) they are the ones that will encounter more rescue scenarios than a Tec diver.

I agree with the part of knowledge of the Rescue course, but one lack of fitment can actually contribute too two tragedies, your self and that person that you wanted to rescue, because you kill your self by overexerting you and fail to rescue that person that may could had been rescued if you were in shape, or that you were to slow to get to shore.

How I see it and believe the point of Mark and Tim video is, is to pay attention on your body and keep your self in shape to not become the second victim and be quick in the rescue, and all are missing the point of the video I believe.

Knowing to foresee the problem before it happen, do CPR, bring a victim from the bottom, is the easy part of the course, going long distance and fast enough and then start CPR is another part and the tough one

It's about being the complete package, and do your best to keep your self that way as much as health and age allows you too, in order to successfully rescue a person and don't become the second victim once you go for that rescue.

 

[Lorenzoid]

In a sane jurisdiction that may work, but I wouldn't in all fairness call my planet "sane jurisdiction". I was instructed in CPR (actually, separately for roadside emergencies and for drownings) a very long time ago in a country that doesn't exist, and have no certificates, valid or otherwise, to prove it. I'm pretty sure that legally I am not trained to perform CPR and by your logic should never attempt it. Even if your life depended on it.

The article that @Basking Ridge Diver linked to is a pretty good overview. It makes the point: "You may or may not need to have CPR certification." Again, it all depends on the local laws.

We will each do as we see fit, but I would like to think that in an emergency I would not hesitate to offer assistance in something I had some training in, regardless of whether I have a card to prove it.

 

[TMHeimer]

The legal aspect of all this has often been discussed regarding dive pros who are on vacation and not in a working capacity. "Duty of Care" etc. as mentioned. I'm sure it does vary from place to place and also according to what you do or attempt to do according to what you are/are not trained in. A good example is the old scenario of the doctor passing by an accident and not wanting to help (malpractice, etc.) as a simple look at the victim may not tell even a doctor what's really wrong. In EFR/CPR courses you are told what to do if suspected spinal injury is present. So, you suspect it is not, but it really is. Certainly someone CPR certified is less qualified than a doctor in coming to conclusions on the spot. I would like to think that I would do all I could to help a victim but also would think about what I'm about to do. If I found someone in obvious cardiac arrest (no pulse, no breathing, no movement, etc.) I would probably go right to CPR--"Once the heart is stopped nothing you can do can make the victim worse". But there are probably many less cut and dry situations, where actions could do more harm than good.

 

[Marktan]

My wife and I are going to pursue the DM path and have the rescue class queued up to take in May. Partly motivated by the DM path, but moreso motivated by the fact that we are typically eachothers buddy, and we would do whatever it takes to rescue each other (at least until she remebers all the life insurance).

I knew the physical requirements were demanding, but the video reinforces that fact (thanks...I think). I need to get my ass in shape especially with cardio. As far as the training, Im not so worried about the 800yd swim with mask snorkle fins, but the 400yd free within time has me a little concerned. My wife is a long distance (10k+) openwater swimmer and competitive indoor swimmer, so the bet stands that if I manage to make my time, she is going to complete hers as a either a 400yd individual medly or all butterfly. Otherwise she will have it knocked out in a couple minutes swimming freestyle.
Both of us, being in insurance and financial planning and risk mitigation, do think of the liability factor a lot. Reading into the policy, I believe our personal umbrella policy will cover if there is no shop E&O covering us at the time and some shrewd lawyer pierces the veil of performing in good faith as a good Samaritan.
Different policies will vary of course.

 

[dmaziuk]

Hehe. Which one of them is 400m in under 7:40? -- Doesn't sound too bad unless you know the world freestyle record's around 4 minutes an you're talking going half as fast as an Olympic swimmer.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

The only time I was injured while diving was in the PADI rescue course.

We took turns playing the role of victim and rescuer. When it was my turn to be the rescuer everything went well until it was time to get the victim out of the water. The victim was "plus" size (not obese, but large) and I couldn't carry her on my back. I grabbed her under her armpits and dragged her onshore, straining a muscle in my bicept in the process.

This victim was a relative stranger and I can see how the stress and efforts would be far greater if the victim was a friend or loved one.

 

[The Chairman]

How fit do you have to be to be rescued? I'm just asking!

Me? I avoid accidents like they might hurt me or something. Rly. I would rather prevent an accident from happening rather than perform a rescue. I hear all these people making all these rescues and I'm astonished. How? Why? As many dives as I have done over the 48 years I've been diving and I doubt that I need the fingers on one hand to count those I have done. Oh, I've towed tired divers here and there and I'm not counting those. Now, if I were to count the number of tanks I've turned on, masks recovered, entanglements removed and so forth, then I would have to take my shoes off and cycle through all my digits a few times. Nevermind... I'm wearing sandals. But really, the best rescue is the one you never have to make through prevention. Safe diving is no accident.

Furthermore, when I hear about someone who seems to have made a number of rescues, I tend to avoid them... like the plague. What are they doing so differently that so many around them are in such distress? Geeeesh. Instructors can be even worse! How many times have I heard one complain about their students needing rescues while silently thinking that I've never had to rescue a single student of mine. Teach them right and you shouldn't have to rescue them, right? They talk like they are all that and I'm thinking that they need to change their approach. The more tales of daring do they share and the more I'm looking for a different boat to dive off. Rly, rly!

 

[TMHeimer]

Marktan, Not to stray too far from the OP, but I would agree you are right in being concerned about the 400m. I finally got a "3", but after getting my swim technique back to par after not swimming for real AT ALL for 40 years since the HS swim team. Get technique down--75% arm power, 25% feet. Correct breathing--not too much or too little. Head movement. Arms not way out of water. Do laps often and get in "swimming" shape. There is a lot of old DM course stuff on the "Going Pro" sub forum (which hasn't been very active last couple of years).

 

[Marktan]

Marktan, Not to stray too far from the OP, but I would agree you are right in being concerned about the 400m. I finally got a "3", but after getting my swim technique back to par after not swimming for real AT ALL for 40 years since the HS swim team. Get technique down--75% arm power, 25% feet. Correct breathing--not too much or too little. Head movement. Arms not way out of water. Do laps often and get in "swimming" shape. There is a lot of old DM course stuff on the "Going Pro" sub forum (which hasn't been very active last couple of years).

Thanks. Im thinking I may join my wife when she practices with her masters swim team. Ive got two months until the in-water part of rescue class so I need to get on it soon.