how to dive with non-DIR divers?

[Wildcard]

I overlook it and cut him some slack unless it's a difficult dive, then I want to be his best friend. or at least "in the area"

...at least I am honest. DIR buddies have their place. lol, he probably thinks I have my place since I have a boat.

plus...he is a Marine.

diving with Marines is good. Name only one criteria for a buddy extraordinaire....

"uh, give me a Marine, please." A DIR MARINE?...you have it made in the shade. A really good situation for all involved is if he has a DIR buddy and the solo diver can just be in the area. Everybody is happy, nobody has compromised their morals.

Didn't one of them shut your air off without you knowing? I sure it was an accident

 

[Quarrior]

For more aggressive / deeper profiles I don't dive with unknown buddies.

Bingo. For me if I'm diving with a new buddy, not an insta-buddy, max depth is going to be 60ft. Just my own personal rule. No specific reason I picked that depth.

For the inta-buddy aka vacation diver we'll usually dive the profile the DM briefs for the dive, but I watch them like a hawk on the first dive together. Then again, I watch the DM like a hawk too. If I find the insta-buddy to be skilled, I relax on the subsequent dives. If they look like they have some minor issues, I'll try to bring it up in coversation in a gentle manner.

However, if they look like an accident looking for a place to happen, I'll tell the DM to find me a new buddy and why. This usually results in me playing tag along with a buddy pair and the dangerous guy buddying up with the DM.

I've been in situations where I had a good buddy and the DM was an accident looking for a place to happen, too.

Basically, for me the first dive tells all and I adjust accordingly there after.

 

[Quarrior]

So maybe:

Me: Hey man, I've never been here before, have you? I'd like to play it safe and start to come back when I have about 1500psi.. get close to the line. Maybe start heading up wiht 800psi. How's that sound?

Instabuddy: Uh, ok. That's really conservative.

Me: Yea, but Im just getting used to this gear and I don't want any problems.

Instabuddy: Yea, ok.


Maybe it works out, maybe not. But by making it seem as though you are concerned about safety (and not preaching) maybe he'll go along. Maybe it'll get them thinking at least.

Nicely done.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I've always found it rather interesting the number of times someone will come to the DIR forum and have a post "hit them the wrong way" because folks are talking about diving DIR-style ...

Does that happen in the solo forum too? Do people go over there and get all huffed up because someone else wants to dive solo?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think it comes down to the sweeping comment of not diving with any non-DIR divers. I have some Tech training but I'm not DIR. I do dive with divers at times who are VERY DIR and have had a great time. I respect their skills and diving style but I do a lot of solo diving and they respect my skills and diving style.

It seems to be newly minted fundies folks who have this type of attitude. Bob, I know you dive with anyone and in you do lead by example. Many other DIR folks here will say that it is a continuing education to be a DIR diver and that doing a fundies course is only a learners license on the way to becoming a better diver. I also read your post about preaching which is right on and applies equally to experienced divers who might not want to dive with new divers with less experience and be "slowed down". Those attitudes come from both sides.

I too was humbled when I started diving doubles and spent my first dive with my head in the sand. I had a lot of dives at the time and never really thought about my skills because I was very comfortable in the water and the skills became second nature. It was like being a new diver when I first started diving doubles with stage bottles.

The problem with DIR is that the vast majority of divers do not have the time or inclination to devote the resources to becoming better divers. When you dive 5 to 10 times a year on vacation, you want to have fun and enjoy the water, not take more classes. The divers who scoff at DIR do not understand it IMO but not all non-DIR divers are unsafe or poor divers. I think that sweeping statements don't help DIR's image with the uninitiated.

 

[Adobo]

I think it comes down to the sweeping comment of not diving with any non-DIR divers. I have some Tech training but I'm not DIR. I do dive with divers at times who are VERY DIR and have had a great time. I respect their skills and diving style but I do a lot of solo diving and they respect my skills and diving style.

It seems to be newly minted fundies folks who have this type of attitude. Bob, I know you dive with anyone and in you do lead by example. Many other DIR folks here will say that it is a continuing education to be a DIR diver and that doing a fundies course is only a learners license on the way to becoming a better diver. I also read your post about preaching which is right on and applies equally to experienced divers who might not want to dive with new divers with less experience and be "slowed down". Those attitudes come from both sides.

I too was humbled when I started diving doubles and spent my first dive with my head in the sand. I had a lot of dives at the time and never really thought about my skills because I was very comfortable in the water and the skills became second nature. It was like being a new diver when I first started diving doubles with stage bottles.

The problem with DIR is that the vast majority of divers do not have the time or inclination to devote the resources to becoming better divers. When you dive 5 to 10 times a year on vacation, you want to have fun and enjoy the water, not take more classes. The divers who scoff at DIR do not understand it IMO but not all non-DIR divers are unsafe or poor divers. I think that sweeping statements don't help DIR's image with the uninitiated.

Sigh... I wish I had a nickel for every time someone wanted to rant about "the problem" with DIR within the DIR forum. One day, this forum might actually be a place where those new to DIR or those with an honest interest can come and get DIR answers to their questions.

BTW, I bolded out a section of your post which, IMO, falls under the category of "making sweeping statements that don't help DIR's image to with the uninitiated." Ironically, this thread was started because a "newly minted" DIR diver (or fresh from fundies) wanted to find out how to go about diving with non-DIR minded divers.

 

[Quarrior]

As I said in my first post, I'm not a DIR diver but I have done diving with DIR folks. I have never met a rude or obnoxious DIR diver.

I have however met some really rude and obnoxious "recreational" divers. Those are the ones that are usually the self professed "experts" with such magnificent statements as "you can't do Tech diving in warm clear water."

In fact the "recreational divers" are the ones that will look down their nose at you if you show up with HOG rig. I've never seen it go the other way.

 

[Adobo]

Didn't one of them shut your air off without you knowing? I sure it was an accident

Just in case someone who doesn't know better reads this...

Shutting down valves and simulating any kind of failures is not at all tolerated in the entry level courses from GUE. In fact, after taking fundies, a student is mandated to fill out a survey. The survey is heavy on questions around whether or not the instructor violated any safety protocols including mask removal or valve shutdowns.

While it is conceivable that there are so called DIR divers out there pulling all kinds of antics, it is not within the scope of DIR diving to intentionally shut down valves or do any other act that puts anyone intentionally at risk.

 

[jeckyll]

Adobo: I think Wildcard may have been referring to an incident where someone on Catherine's boat accidentally turned her valve off. From what I recall the incident had nothing to do any which way with DIR or DIR divers

 

[Diver Dennis]

Sigh... I wish I had a nickel for every time someone wanted to rant about "the problem" with DIR within the DIR forum. One day, this forum might actually be a place where those new to DIR or those with an honest interest can come and get DIR answers to their questions.

BTW, I bolded out a section of your post which, IMO, falls under the category of "making sweeping statements that don't help DIR's image to with the uninitiated." Ironically, this thread was started because a "newly minted" DIR diver (or fresh from fundies) wanted to find out how to go about diving with non-DIR minded divers.

From OP...

Now, I can see why DIR divers prefer not to dive with non-DIR divers.

Perhaps I was reading this wrong?

Hey, I'm on the DIR side more than you know but I didn't make that statement, the
OP did. I hardly think I was ranting about the problem or bashing DIR. On the contrary, if you read my post you will see I certainly have no animosity toward DIR at all.


It is usually divers who are new to DIR that have that type of attitude or misconception, the ones I've been diving with never think like that.

 

[Charlie99]

Reading the 1st post in this thread once again, it reminds me of a former smoker or drinker going on about how horrible smokers and drinkers are.

I took GUE DIR F two weekends ago and discovered I am approximately 17 lightyears away in skill but I am practicing and trying to 'do it right'.
I discovered GUE, got my gear and enrolled/took the course all within a 7 day period.

and

Last night in class <NAUI Rescue Class>, I saw what my GUE instructor was talking about, those people do things unsafe and they dont even know it.........I know I aint going back to my "happy go lucky, good thing I am ignorant style of diving".

and ends with

I am going to try and be horizontal all the time and they are going to be vertical. Ascent drills are going to be interesting with that pose. Now, I can see why DIR divers prefer not to dive with non-DIR divers.
I could go on but you all know what I am talking about. So, how do DIR divers handle diving with non-DIR divers?

Depending upon how you read the post, it can come off as a diver that has seen the light and is an enthusiastic convert to DIR; or as the posting of a diver that somehow feels that by maligning the dive skills of others that he somehow elevates his status.

Whether or not it is an honest inquiry requesting advice on how to dive with non-DIR divers is somewhat debatable.

Charlie Allen