WarrenZ
The Ultimate Bad Example
@The Chairman don't you know that carabiners are an entanglement Hazzard you are going to die.
I finally bought a house in Cave Country! W00T!!!
- Thread starter The Chairman
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
The predecessor to pex and the two predecessors before that are why I don't use pex. I wouldn't even use it outside. I'm a dinosaur I guess. The problem is by the time it proves itself I'll be retired in oh say 15 years from now. I will say that the countertop looks pretty fancy. That is a NICE sink.
Interesting. I'm a huge fan of PEX, but it has its applications. We have enough Iron in our water that Copper is not too happy in this area. Like most plastics, PEX needs to be protected from UV, even with "stabilizers". It is the only option for hydronic heating. I used it for hot and cold potable water, the fire sprinkler systems, hydronic heating systems, and LP air in the shop.
Unrelated to the use of PEX, I enforced a design rule in the house I built: There are NO inaccessible pressurized water systems inside he structure. The great majority is secured to the ceiling of my shop, which is below the living spaces. Pipe penetrates the deck under cabinets and next to toilets. The only pressurized water inside walls are for showers, which have access panels on the opposite side of the wall. Fire sprinklers are behind easily removed trim panels that use stainless trim-head screws.
All power and data wiring is in conduit (mostly PVC) so it can easily be replaced/upgraded. The house is concrete to the rafters so will be here long after all the other houses in the neighborhood are termite poop. The flexibility for upgrading and repairs are worth the extra effort to me.
Anything that relies on polymers is a potential issue. One or two of the precursors to pex went away because of failures with the fittings. The system was not invented because it was superior but because it was able to be installed with almost no skill or training. I find this to be troublesome. CPVC has been on the market for a long time. There are countless buildings that have it installed for fire sprinkler systems. There is a class action lawsuit against it now. Apparently it loses important polymers over time when in contact with dozens of things found in construction such as flux, vinyl wire insulation and a long list. They have known about it for a long time but we are being made aware of it through a letter of disclaimer of responsibility that we must sign if we want to use it in our houses. Their alternate recommendation is pex. I think that's crazy and I use black iron pipe at a substantial cost increase. It has decades of successful use. That doesn't mean the pipe you buy today is the same pipe.....
Other things that are designed to remove the need for skills and that I refuse to use in my buildings are vinyl shower pans, hardibacker shower wall panels, corregated gas tubing(gastite), zipwall and a long list of other products that lead to building failures. Hell, I'm not even using portland cement in my masonry walls anymore. I've gone back to lime mortars where the masonry is protected by a sacrificial and self healing mortar that can be maintained over the centuries. Uhoh, I've outed myself as a building science geek and I'll just leave you with two other things I don't do. I don't ventilate my attics and I don't use insulation inside my walls or between my framing members. With few exceptions, all my insulation is located on the exterior of the building structure. That has been the case for about 15 years.
Other things that are designed to remove the need for skills and that I refuse to use in my buildings are vinyl shower pans, hardibacker shower wall panels, corregated gas tubing(gastite), zipwall and a long list of other products that lead to building failures. Hell, I'm not even using portland cement in my masonry walls anymore. I've gone back to lime mortars where the masonry is protected by a sacrificial and self healing mortar that can be maintained over the centuries. Uhoh, I've outed myself as a building science geek and I'll just leave you with two other things I don't do. I don't ventilate my attics and I don't use insulation inside my walls or between my framing members. With few exceptions, all my insulation is located on the exterior of the building structure. That has been the case for about 15 years.
DennisS
Contributor
Just a reminder, if you are changing a receptacle under the sink, on a lot of houses there is one receptacle under the sink to plug in a dishwasher and garbage disposal. The two plugs have separate circuits. Many a person has had to change their shorts when they failed to remove the tabs connecting the two plugs on the receptacle.
Since I was doing my own electrical work in my own house I installed a receptacle under every sink anticipating electrically controlled faucets and liquid soap dispensers that will hopefully be really good one day. I'm not crazy about the function of proximity sensors I've used but that is just a matter of time. The touch on/off have promise but touchless would be desirable in a prep sink where hands may be contaminated with bacteria. If there's anything I don't want more of is batteries. The was no way I was going to convince my RN-bride that hospital style foot pedal valves were a good idea.
I appreciate that, but as much as I love working with copper it doesn't survive well in our area and hates being in contact with concrete. I was finally sold when I spoke with an associate in Germany that has had it installed since the 1970s. He reminded me that no plumbing materials will last as long as a good building structure -- his stone house built in the early 1700s. That prompted my unusual access design requirement.
OP
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Please elucidate.
The wiring under the sink was easy. There was already a hole torn in the drywall under that outlet so accessing the wiring was easy. I have installed a rocker switch by the outlet above the counter and will be putting in a GFCI and replacing the switch on the other side of the counter. I also took care to label the outlets so I won't make a mistake.
Installing the sink was a biotch. Wow. I couldn't have overlooked more stuff if I had tried. First, as I was getting into the job, I realized I had to replace the countertop. As many staples that held that countertop down, I knew it was going to self-destruct as I removed it. I was right. However, just because a sink will fit into the countertop, doesn't mean it will fit in the cabinet. It didn't.
Now I kinda wished I had built the cabinets first, but I had to deal with the spurting faucet sooner rather than later. BTW, it was spewing below as well. Not too much damage except to the countertop which is now gone.
You can see the undersink outlet, the two valves that will be replaced soon, the sewer connection that has to be redone, as well as the cabinet interfering with the sink dropping in. Arrrrrrrrgh. I really, really didn't see that one until it bit me.
The cutout for the sink.
The sink dropped into place.
Will the ginormous size allow me to list this as a 2 1/2 bath home??? @sphyon for the joke
If nothing else, I can at least wash my Kia Niro in it!
OK, now I'm going to have to Redo the front of the cabinets anyway and I might do that instead of simply replacing them at this point. No rush. It looks crappy, but I can think this thing through and make it look nice. Really nice. I went and plugged in the inlet to the sink and found that the 1/2"mnpt and the 1/2"fnpt/1/4" adapter were not compatible. The female side was too shallow and I couldn't get the two to seal. I guess I could go crazy with the teflon tape, but that's not my style. I had to drive to Daytona Beach the next day and pick up my daughter from Orlando the day after, so I just let her sit for a couple of days.
Saturday morning, while my daughter still slept, I replaced the two plastic valves that were 1/2" PEX on either side to metal valves that were 1/2" PEX to 1/4" compression. I also plumbed in the sewage and was delighted to find no leaks coming or going.
Currently, the sink is 'in' and operational. I still have to figure out the clips and will need to shim the countertop for them to work. I'm going to see if the wood I planed and used as a template to rout the sink opening will work. I think it will with some modifications like making them narrower. Then, of course, the refacing of the front to make it look purdy.
Similar threads
