Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

[BKP]

I read this entire thread, and the only "proven" argument seems to be that there are fierce defenders of each form factor. The bottom line appears to be that you should dive whatever works best for you, and that neither is "better" than the other...

...unless you believe the gear makes the diver...

At 300 dives +/-, there are many more experienced divers here than me. I like to think I follow best practices, keep my skills sharp, continually learn, make pre-dive checks mandatory and routine, and I'm *always* happy to learn from more experienced divers here, at my LDS, and on the boat. However, I'm a stubborn old SOB that has had no problem trying everything (including BCDs, BP/W, hybrids, inflator octos, conventional octos, splits, paddles, new technologies, etc.), for myself, 'til I found/find what worked/works best for *me* (and those choices are ever-evolving). I'm not at all concerned with anyone that has a "problem" with those choices, or chooses to perpetually denigrate them (an unfortunate ongoing happenstance on this board), and simply insists *their* choices are "better."
For what it's worth, this is what I've personally found:

(We're talking recreational, since tech, caving, and specialty diving (which I don't do) demands specific equipment).

- I enjoyed the modularity of the BP/W, and being able to put together a custom build of wing, plate, STA, harness, accessories, etc.

- I love the comfort of the BCD, and the multi-point attach many are now designed with that distribute the tank weight. And, yes, once in the water, it's less relevant. However, if you do much hauling to/from shore dives it becomes much more relevant.

- I deal with intermittent rotator cuff issues (fallout from a long-term boxing passion). Padded shoulder straps on the BCD's are a godsend. I've always failed to understand why padding in a BCD is of any concern to the detractors as long as your weighting and buoyancy for that rig is zeroed in. It certainly doesn't negatively affect my trim.

- I see absolutely no more "streamlining" on a BP/W, if you keep your BCD kit tight and routed properly. I've seen BP/W divers outfitted like Christmas trees, as well. That's a diver issue, not a harness choice issue. Once you add ditchable weights, spare mask pockets, etc., I don't see any obviously less drag on a BP/W, than a BCD.

- As for SPOF, I've never had a Delrin buckle or cummerbund "break"... ever. They may, but I've never personally experienced it. The issues I *have* seen are on OPV seals and springs, problem inflators (such as the infamous SS Halcyon), HP hose blowouts, o-ring blowouts, free-flows, separated reg mouthpieces, and flooded camera housings. These are common to both BP/W and BCD users.

- I like the convenience of a simple tug on a sternum strap, or shoulder harness strap, to tighten up the BCD mid-dive, when suit compression at depth "loosens" it up a bit.

- I like the integrated weight pockets on the BCD. You certainly can add them to a BP/W kit, but which do you think is better integrated, and more tightly coupled?

Bottom line, it's a personal choice, and dive-type specific. An argument for one otherwise being generally "better" than the other will never be resolved...

 

[on_two_wheels]

I didn't read the whole thing (all 10 pages) but will just remind and point out the poll from some time ago. It was overwhelmingly in favor of the bp/w by those that have actually used both. A few of those that didn't stick with the bp/w admitted to trying it once or having never had someone show them the best way to size/use it. Not saying it was scientific.....but there's validity to it.

I've used both. Looking back I see easy diving and I see efficient diving. I chose to be efficient.

 

[Crush]

If you post that you prefer a BP&W you will be respected on SB. If you post that you prefer a BC you will get piled on. If you post that you prefer a BC and you have fewer than 2000 dives you will be ridiculed for your lack of dive experience. If you have more than 2000 and post a preference for BCs, well, ask halemano how that turned out for him...

 

[DevonDiver]

I think that whatever you post... provided that it is justified and backed with a reasonable amount of experience, then it deserves respect.

To say you like a jacket BCD is one thing. To say it is better/worse than a BP&W is another.

To make comparitive statements, you really need a reasonable amount of experience with both options. Quite often, posters will state their preference within a comparative debate. When they do so without reasonable experience of both, then it gets picked apart.

Most BP&W advocates tend to have past experience with jacket BCDs, which allows comparison. The opposite is less regularly true.

IMHO, that is why the debate sometimes seems one-sided.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

These threads are always fun.:shocked2:

The original post simply asked which was simpler. Not which was best or any of the other things that were brough into 19 pages worth of posts.

The more simple one would be the one with less, it's that simple.

Usually this would be a backplate/wing. Just considering the harness portion (HOG only) It's webbing, 3 d-rings, a buckle, and a loop of bungie cord for the inflator hose.

If you use a "comfort harness" with this setup then it becomes less "simple", or if you add integrated weights to it, it becomes less "simple.

Compared to the harness part of a jacket BC, these would have quick release buckles, swiveling webbing attachment points, sometimes multiple d-rings, a waist cummerbund, integrated weight pockets, and sometimes an additional pocket or two. This makes it less simple.

If you got a jacket BC without a cummerbund, integrated weights, fewer d-rings, or no pockets, then this one becomes more "simple".

To the OP:

Which is more simple? Both, depends on which one I guess.

I have noticed that there are a lot of BP/W haters here.

I rarely see a BP/W anywhere, so why would anyone care so much if divers like their BP/W setups so much? They have usually arrived at their decision after much thought. How many BP/W bashers have tried both? A small portion of them probably.

If I had to choose a jacket BC, it would probably be an Oceanic Probe. I like the design compared to others.

For me, the best tool for the job is my DSS rig.

-Mitch

 

[bj139]

The feeling that you might "turn turtle" is not uncommon for new BP&W users.

A couple things you can try.

1) Move any ballast toward your belly.

2) Keep your fin blades horizontal and spread your knees apart.

After a few dives the feeling will likely be greatly reduced or eliminated.

Good luck,

Tobin

I dove Dutch Springs today and had 10 lbs of lead in a DUI weight and trim harness near my belly using a HP117 Faber steel tank. I did not notice any tendency to" turn turtle" so you are right. The BP/W loosened as my drysuit compressed. Is there any way to thread the BP so the shoulder straps can be tightened during a dive? When I bought it used, it had a triglide on the webbing between the two lower slots. Should it be here or can I tighten the harness if I move it?

 

[cool_hardware52]

I dove Dutch Springs today and had 10 lbs of lead in a DUI weight and trim harness near my belly using a HP117 Faber steel tank. I did not notice any tendency to" turn turtle" so you are right. The BP/W loosened as my drysuit compressed. Is there any way to thread the BP so the shoulder straps can be tightened during a dive? When I bought it used, it had a triglide on the webbing between the two lower slots. Should it be here or can I tighten the harness if I move it?

There's no need to have a BP&W harness "tight"

Tobin

 

[Crush]

To say you like a jacket BCD is one thing. To say it is better/worse than a BP&W is another.

I doubt that anyone would suggest that a jacket BCD is superior to a BP&W for tech diving. These fights always erupt when discussing the needs of some recreational diver. To say that a jacket BCD is better/worse than a BP&W for the average recreational diver is suspect IMH and under-experienced opinion - for such a diver a jacket and BP should work equally well.

 

[fisheater]

There's no need to have a BP&W harness "tight"

Tobin

Yep. The BP/W is held mainly by the waist strap and crotch strap. The shoulder straps just keep in the area, so to speak. Unlike a jacket BC, the shoulder straps don't have to be tight to keep the tank from flopping around. The plate takes care of that for you.

 

[dmoore19]

Yep. The BP/W is held mainly by the waist strap and crotch strap. The shoulder straps just keep in the area, so to speak. Unlike a jacket BC, the shoulder straps don't have to be tight to keep the tank from flopping around. The plate takes care of that for you.

Does it make sure your air is turned on too???