Local Rates

[Christi]

Sorry I ain’t buying it. The cost to send a boat out with a lite load of a couple of diver’s verses a full load up to the legal limit per DM is basically the same. Fuel costs are basically a push with minimal increase in fuel burn. Labor cost are already paid for the captain and DM (possibly a higher tip split with additional divers) Air fills cost a couple bucks each and park fees are 2 bucks each plus snacks at a couple bucks. Basically it costs less $10 extra to fill an otherwise empty seat, which has zero value after it leaves the pier.

Now over the long term I can understand and support your position. Having worked for an airline for better than 30 years now, I understand the dilemma. It’s not a cost per diver yield that truly counts it’s the average yield per trip that counts over the long run. For years the airlines could not resist last minute sales to fill unused seats and the consumers reacted by waiting to purchase at the last minute discounted price which caused the average yield per flight to be suppressed. Many thousands of workers lost their jobs through consolidation until the airlines could exercise pricing discipline in a consolidated industry so that they were not, on average, flying flights at a loss.

What scares me is the number of boats that I understand are operating without permits in the park due to poor enforcement (and failure of the park to manage the existing permit population). I know several DM’s outfitting boats to join into the fray due to the example of the current bootleg boats. This can only help suppress the prices to those operators who are paying the extra costs to play by the rules.

Yeh - I probably didn't explain that part of my explanation very well - but your airline analogy helped actually. And yes, there is a huge problem with "pirate" boats as we're calling them - boats and operations without permits, business licenses etc. - one of the things we will be tackling with our Association of LEGAL dive shops - will also be bringing awareness to visitors with a listing of legal operations - more will be revealed

 

[CajunDiva]

Kudos - that's a very proactive approach.

 

[ggunn]

Sorry I ain’t buying it.

So, you know more about how Christi's business runs than she does? Or she is deliberately misleading us for some reason?

Sorry, I ain't buying it.

 

[BRT]

I can't wait to reap the benifits of getting the unlicensed operators off the water.

 

[ReefHound]

So, you know more about how Christi's business runs than she does? Or she is deliberately misleading us for some reason?

Sorry, I ain't buying it.

Seems to me they were talking about two different ways of costing and not really in disagreement.

 

[mstevens]

most of us agree that a "local" is someone that lives here full time as their primary residence or someone that lives here X amount of months per year. I don't even necessarily consider everyone with "permanent residency" cards as locals because they've become so easy to get simply by proving a certain income or balance in the bank and this has become abused in my opinion (and many others). Snowbirds, extended vacationers, or multi-time a year vacationers are NOT locals - unless you live here full time, you're a guest/visitor/tourist no matter how you slice it.

I own a house on the island, have permanent residency, a Plan Local card, and even Cozumel driving licenses (which were harder to get than residency). I have more and closer friends on the island than anywhere else. When I was getting my FPMC card renewed, I got called "Don Mark"! Waiters at some restaurants know my order based on what day I'm there.

I still consider myself a tourist. A dedicated one, certainly, but a tourist nonetheless. I'll consider myself a "non-tourist" when I sell my US house or when I get an INE credential. I'll probably never be a "local".

I have a list and send out a message each week with available spots and it's first come, first serve. They still have the possibility of getting bumped if we get a reservation and need the space.

This really seems to be the key. A "local rate" is for someone who gets an email about an open spot the following day and thinks "yeah, I can do that", but otherwise would spend that time standing in line at Telmex or driving to every car parts place looking for a 12" wiper blade for the passenger side of a 3 year-old Nissan (which, no, the Nissan dealer at which it was bought does not carry)

If I need to dive on certain days, or if I need to dive more than every now and then, then I should expect to pay the publicly-quoted rate.

 

[caydiver]

Local rates in the old days could be covered by a driving license now you need a local health insurance card. I was blown away when I was asked for one last year by a new shop girl who didn’t recognize us. Its a place where we regularly go shore diving and it was three local DMs. However understood the problem and we all paid full rates as all we had were c-cards and one driving license (no wallets). Locals don’t have the confirmation rights as visitors, take care of getting to and from and pretty much do everything with their gear and if other guests book can lose their spot on the boat last minute. They also tip the guys real well as they know how tight that is and to show their appreciation for the local rate. Many of the boats ops now are also asking for health insurance cards. There are too many folks here that have condos they visit once or twice a year and while it would be nice to extend the discount we would all go out of business. In addition locals send us new business regularly so it all works out. Sorry should clarify this is how it works in Grand Cayman. And actually while we would always rather have a full boat, sending a boat out without empty seats does have benefits. It gives the DM's a bit of a break, gives the guy on surface watch time to really look over the boat and gear that is left on it and mean that the time involved in waking the boat up and putting it to bed is much faster. Everyone likes a day when they get a little bit of free time. Can't speak about the situation in Coz, but the margins here are very tight. Many of the smaller ops while still having their old "name" have been bought up by one guy. Anyone here who is licensed (there really are no pirates) cannot afford not to charge going rates. The overall costs of insurance (both boat/business and health), work permits, T&B License and even CITA costs are just too high -- the salary and gas are the least of the problem.

 

[Christi]

Local rates in the old days could be covered by a driving license now you need a local health insurance card. I was blown away when I was asked for one last year by a new shop girl who didn’t recognize us. Its a place where we regularly go shore diving and it was three local DMs. However understood the problem and we all paid full rates as all we had were c-cards and one driving license (no wallets). Locals don’t have the confirmation rights as visitors, take care of getting to and from and pretty much do everything with their gear and if other guests book can lose their spot on the boat last minute. They also tip the guys real well as they know how tight that is and to show their appreciation for the local rate. Many of the boats ops now are also asking for health insurance cards. There are too many folks here that have condos they visit once or twice a year and while it would be nice to extend the discount we would all go out of business. In addition locals send us new business regularly so it all works out. Sorry should clarify this is how it works in Grand Cayman. And actually while we would always rather have a full boat, sending a boat out without empty seats does have benefits. It gives the DM's a bit of a break, gives the guy on surface watch time to really look over the boat and gear that is left on it and mean that the time involved in waking the boat up and putting it to bed is much faster. Everyone likes a day when they get a little bit of free time. Can't speak about the situation in Coz, but the margins here are very tight. Many of the smaller ops while still having their old "name" have been bought up by one guy. Anyone here who is licensed (there really are no pirates) cannot afford not to charge going rates. The overall costs of insurance (both boat/business and health), work permits, T&B License and even CITA costs are just too high -- the salary and gas are the least of the problem.

BINGO

 

[deepsea21]

until the airlines could exercise pricing discipline in a consolidated industry

You mean until our bought and paid for government's antitrust department approved so many mergers among the airlines that we now have an oligopoly with all true competition effectively eliminated. The hand full of airlines today no longer compete with one another. They've carved up the country, hubs and routes as they see fit and are quick to destroy any new competitor that may show up by flying that newbie's routes at losses until they drive the newbie out. The days of another Southwest airlines successfully taking on the establishment (this oligopoly), improving quality and efficiency while lowering airfares across the board are over. Heck, Southwest is now part of the establishment. Why do the airlines treat people like cattle herding them about, cramming them into smaller and smaller seats while charging more and more for everything? Because they now can and no one (not you, me or the government) can do anything about it. Ever wonder why a prescription pill sold in Mexico costs 10 cents and the same in the states costs $5? It all comes down to big money, lobbying, and our FDA that is an absolute disaster/failure.

The same mistakes are being made with on-line retail. What happens when almost everything we purchase comes from a few massive online retailers that have eliminated all competition with buying power that enables them to sell at lower prices than a smaller competitor could purchase at wholesale for resale? What happens when these massive online retailers decide to crank up their profitability by raising retail prices and all this "free shipping" comes to an end? We'll all be stuck paying whatever they demand just as we are today with the airlines.

Want to fly these days? PAY THE PRICE DEMANDED, DRIVE, OR GROW YOUR OWN WINGS may as well be the airlines' response.

 

[BRT]

You mean until our bought and paid for government's antitrust department approved so many mergers among the airlines that we now have an oligopoly with all true competition effectively eliminated. The hand full of airlines today no longer compete with one another. They've carved up the country, hubs and routes as they see fit and are quick to destroy any new competitor that may show up by flying that newbie's routes at losses until they drive the newbie out. The days of another Southwest airlines successfully taking on the establishment (this oligopoly), improving quality and efficiency while lowering airfares across the board are over. Heck, Southwest is now part of the establishment. Why do the airlines treat people like cattle herding them about, cramming them into smaller and smaller seats while charging more and more for everything? Because they now can and no one (not you, me or the government) can do anything about it. Ever wonder why a prescription pill sold in Mexico costs 10 cents and the same in the states costs $5? It all comes down to big money, lobbying, and our FDA that is an absolute disaster/failure.

The same mistakes are being made with on-line retail. What happens when almost everything we purchase comes from a few massive online retailers that have eliminated all competition with buying power that enables them to sell at lower prices than a smaller competitor could purchase at wholesale for resale? What happens when these massive online retailers decide to crank up their profitability by raising retail prices and all this "free shipping" comes to an end? We'll all be stuck paying whatever they demand just as we are today with the airlines.

Want to fly these days? PAY THE PRICE DEMANDED, DRIVE, OR GROW YOUR OWN WINGS may as well be the airlines' response.

And yet over 21 years my tickets to Cancun have gotten cheaper and cheaper, even before accounting for inflation. With inflation the tickets today are extremely cheap compared to our first trip in 1996.