Lotsa Weight

[NAM001]

My 3mm farmer john needs 19# I am 6' and 250# I am diving a STEEL BPW with double steel tanks. in that set up I need no belt or additional weight. at the same time when I dive single steel tank with a 3mm shorty. I need no extra weight. being in warm water and seldom diving doubles any more I also seldom use the 3mm FJ. I would suggest the OP try a BPW and see how that works. Another thing I found with the FJ was that I have seals in the suit and it traps air.
The seals are so good I cant get out of the water cause the water will not pass by the seals to drain. There is no flow in the suit and it is warm in spring water. I have to burp it a few times to get the air out.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Like others, I'm struggling to accept your need for so much weight.

I'm roughly the same as you , maybe a couple of inches taller and 10lbs heavier. So for comparison with 2 x AL 80, a 3mm full suit, boots and a plateless wing, I use 4-6lbs)

If I move back your a 7mm, hood, boots with an HP 100 and the same plateless wing I sit at 8lbs.

I do find it difficult to float in a swimming pool as my legs seem to sink. But I still don't think that's a major difference between us

While your BCD will be more buoyant than my wing, I find it difficult to believe it is so much so.

I'm going to hypothesis here, and please don't take offence as none is intended.

I firmly believe that people get "addicted" to weight. The body and the mind is brilliant at sub consciously making allowances, and trying to get the weight right is more than just a weight check. I would suggest reading this blog post from a UK GUE instructor (I'm not and advocate of GUE, but think this is a well written easy to understand post)

Perhaps you are constantly breathing from the top half of your lungs, maybe you are subconsciously anxious when entering the water causing your diaphragm to drop thus with a bigger lung volume.

Even the test at the safety stop isn't 100% because if you worry you are underweight, the process above make you more buoyant.

If techniques is accounting for some of your extra lead, then given the amount of dives you have it's going to be more difficult to put right as it is ingrained.

I've mentored divers who fiercely defend their weighting as correct, if you take lead of it as though they want to be buoyant to be proved right. so I eventually sneak lead off their rig and let them think they have X lbs still on when in fact they have less. Not once have they had trouble being under weighted, and are astounded when I let them know.

The mind can be a powerful thing.

So I suggest finally find a good friend/instructor and be open minded to try different things. It may be that indeed you are correct, but you may find that you do indeed start to reduce weight, and once that reduction starts it's amazing how much you can eventually take off by doing it in small steps every dive.

 

[VikingDives]

Everyone's buoyancy differs, but are there just a very few of us that need that much weight? Bone density? What?

I'm 6'2". When I did my first dive, I was 280 pounds and was using 38 lbs using a old used 7mm and boots. Today I'm ~250 and using 18 pounds with a new 7mm, and 7 lbs in the pool with no suit. Back at 38 lbs I was severely over-weighted, and today my buoyancy is pretty much spot on, but what most don't consider is the relative buoyancy of your body composition, that is:

Fat floats

A person with a lot of fat mass is going to be more buoyant at a give weight than a person who has less fat mass at the same weight, which is one reason that weighting yourself is more of an art than a science (or perhaps I should say that the estimation of necessary weight, outside of the water is more art).

Off the top of my head, I'd guess that the four factors that you would have to consider to come up with something more scientific or accurate would be lung volume, fat mass, lean mass and the sum of the buoyancy of your equipment.

That's a long way of saying yes, having big bones will help you sink, and carrying a tub of lard around your waist will help you float.

 

[TMHeimer]

Re the 30 pounds--of course in the pool I'm in my shorty. In salt water I need 18 pounds with that.
At the checkout dives I used my own BC, so don't know how the shop's one would have reduced my weight.
Students--Oh, maybe 2 or 3 out of 100 needed weight like me.
Breathing-- Not sure how poor breathing affects a standard weight check.
As mentioned, I of course dropped 5 pounds with the steel 72, but still used 37 or so.
I compared using 12 pounds with the shop BCD and shorty in the pool, and that was fine--as with the larger students. So based on all that one would (for some reason) have to conclude it's my BCD. Haven't yet heard from anyone else using so much (except for that one instructor as mentioned, and he is similar in size to me.

Diving D, Some interesting thoughts. I will read the blog.

 

[DFDubb]

12 lbs in a fresh water pool with only a shorty seems like a crap ton to me as well. I've helped out with several classes and we give 6lbs to each newbie their first time in the pool and I've never seen anyone not be able to go down, and I've seem some seriously fat boys too.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm 6'2".t.

That's a long way of saying yes, having big bones will help you sink, and carrying a tub of lard around your waist will help you float.

Yes you are right, but you're over simplifying it.

For example when I learnt to dive, I was 50lbs lighter and "needed" 15-18lbs of lead. Today that 50lbs excess weight is floaty fat, except I need no weight for the same gear.

Technique is vitally important. In my post above I declared that with 2 x Al 80 and 3mm rig I needed 4-6lbs. Well the first dive I did some math in my head and decided (although I don't dive AL at home) that with 2 tanks I wouldn't need weight. Predictably I didn't descend also predictably I decided that it was because my wet suit was dry and I'd be okay and duck dived for the first 6'. At 60' with little air in my wing I realised the safety stop would be interesting. But I held it okay with breath control. I don't mean holding my breath or skip breathing - just breathing correctly (although my exhales were considerably longer than my inhales). Anyway back on the boat I told myself off and slapped the required lead in.

This is what people mean by relaxing and why new divers start to drop lead with some experience. With more experience and practice you get to be able to hold stops at a precise depth in the blue - I can, with a lot of concentration hold a stop to +/- 0.5m which I believe is 4" either way from the center. All down to breathing

 

[Diving Dubai]

@TMHeimer

Watch out for that blog, it'll suck you in. Seriously there are a lot of good articles written for easy reading although with a British sense of Humour. Gareth is a board member and it was TS&M that recommended the blog to me.

If you need anymore advice you can PM me if you don't wish to post publicly. Reducing the amount of lead people carry is a passion of mine and I enjoy helping them

 

[VikingDives]

Yes you are right, but you're over simplifying it.

This is what people mean by relaxing and why new divers start to drop lead with some experience. With more experience and practice you get to be able to hold stops at a precise depth in the blue

OP is a divemaster, not a new diver and stated that he knew proper buoyancy. I'm assuming that's true. I could be wrong, but I don't see how I'm oversimplifying. His question was, "...On SB, I read of people using way less weight than me with the same wetsuit... Everyone's buoyancy differs, but are there just a very few of us that need that much weight? Bone density? What?" I didn't see anything in there about breath control. Either way, my tongue in cheek statement stands. If you are fat, you are more buoyant. That's not overly simple, it is just fact.

OP, please get your breathing under control, I'm not saying you're fat, I'm saying you have huge lungs.

 

[TMHeimer]

Having read the blog and comments on it, I do wonder if I am guilty of some of the breathing aspects. I THINK I breathe deeply, but maybe not deeply enough. Hovering has never been a problem. I do believe at 8 and 12 pounds in the pool we were somewhat overweighted in the shorties, as hovering in the pool required more exaggerated use of lungs (I couldn't descend with the 8 lb. weight, so I needed the 12 as that's all we had, and it worked well enough). Not so for me in the ocean. I have always felt my buoyancy control is as good as it can be, but perhaps I have adjusted over time to all that weight (as suggested). Am not sure if good buoyancy control and proper breathing while diving relates dirsectly (or at all) to weighting--ei. when you do a weight check you are with an empty BC holding a normal breath--if correctly weighted the water is at eye level. Then you exhale and slowly sink. You are not breathing in and out doing this.
Possibly related in some way is that most of the time on my dives I am right at the bottom, in my search for shells, scallops, flounders, etc.--I'm probably a tiny bit negative doing this. I don't have problems using the lungs to rise over big rocks, however.

 

[AfterDark]

WOW is the water up north there denser or something!?

TM I use a the same style and thickness wet suit as you. My height is 5'7" weight 185. I have a 6lbs SS B/P w/ a STA that weights 3lbs. Using one 94cuft steel tank I need no extra weight, using my 50cuft steel doubles (sans STA) I need 32lb, the 72cuft doubles require 22lbs.

The 1st thing I would do is lose the 80al tank. I dived with one back in 1980's and needed 35+lbs with a 1/4" FJ wet suit. (I use only steel tanks these days.) Add a SS B/P and a STA and I think you'll be able to drop half the lead you use now.