Management of *backmount* independent doubles?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@tbone1004,

I can see the point for narrow exits/entry way. I’ve had to go sideways a little to get around that. Though I never remove my cylinders in the water, I just climb up with them. Honestly, for wrecks in NC (that I hope to dive one day, I hope to be on a rebreather.

 

[tbone1004]

@wetb4igetinthewater even then, doubles with a smccr as a stage, or more ideally, a rack mounted rebreather is truly the answer. I dive with the rack so everything is self-contained. Incidentally right now the rack is independent doubles, so I've been diving a lot of that lately

 

[jerrwhy01]

You tell me! I have zero experience with it. When that was mentioned in the other thread, my recollection is that there was a general eyeroll from those who replied. I didn't see anyone coming to magnets' defense.

Magnets are an interesting answer. You make sure they're as strong as you want them to be (and I'd want them pretty darn strong: you're gonna have to give a *good* tug), but they address my biggest problem with most frangible connections: what do you do when they break when you don't want them to? Magnets re-stick...

Is it "DIR" or whatever? That ship sailed with independent doubles and insta-buddies... so it's only "bad" if it doesn't work... (Though if a GUE type has something more than an eyeroll I'd love to hear it -- even if it's just "You're gonna die because...")

I've been using a magnetic hose mount on my long hose (side mount) for a few years now; I really like it. Oddly enough it was a GUE guy who suggested it me.

I've never experienced any significant issues with using it and I've dove that set up from shore, boats, kayaks, caves, wrecks, etc...and I really haven't really had a significant issue in terms of deployment or having the hose get loose.

The only issue I did experience was the glue that they used to hold the magnet in the holder wasn't great and the magnet came out but since the plastic holder was still attached to the hose and magnet was still attached to the other magnet I was able to effect a repair using some 3M 2 part marine epoxy. That repair was roughly 3 years ago and it's still holding strong.

 

[sea_ledford]

For a quick release long hose clip, use one of the dive rite bungee toggle things. Attach the bungee to the clip with a single prusik loop, then put the toggle between the bungee to hold it together around the hose. It pops right off the hose if you give it a good tug. And you don't lose the bungee. Not sure why Dive Rite hasn't figured this out yet, but don't follow their attachment directions if you want a quick release.
Hose Clip Retainer | Dive Rite

-Chris

 

[tmassey]

For a quick release long hose clip, use one of the dive rite bungee toggle things. Attach the bungee to the clip with a single prusik loop, then put the toggle between the bungee to hold it together around the hose. It pops right off the hose if you give it a good tug. And you don't lose the bungee. Not sure why Dive Rite hasn't figured this out yet, but don't follow their attachment directions if you want a quick release.
Hose Clip Retainer | Dive Rite

-Chris

I like this so much. I’m trying it tomorrow! Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[tmassey]

Sorry for the mass reply: I’m in the keys and family stuff is making online time very scarce.

Travel with a manifold.

Option 1.

Such concessions. Why?

Ah, a world of black and white....

Short answer for me: tanks don’t fit well on an airliner and violating someone else’s tanks that way might make for a very interesting conversation with the owner. YMMV.

Sidemount is less suitable for wrecks? Really?

IMHO, yes. Maybe I’m unlucky, but I’ve never seen a side mount diver on a wreck that looked like they were having an easier time than backmount. Not on the boat and not in the water. Unless and until I see otherwise at least a few times, I’ll leave it alone.

Well trained sidemount divers have no issues diving from a boat. See Tomasz Michura. Of course, few sidemount divers approach that level of skill (I don't). Many people say that sidemount is no big deal, but while I have not seen all those people in the water, the ones I have were .... not so good.

Exactly. I never said it would not work, or that it couldn’t work. I *can* use a butter knife as a screwdriver and with enough practice get better than others. Still doesn’t make it the right tool. A single counterexample does not violate the logic that it’s not the best tool.

I've been using a magnetic hose mount on my long hose (side mount) for a few years now; I really like it. Oddly enough it was a GUE guy who suggested it me.

Got a name so we can name-drop when his brethren call me a stroke? . That’s OK: I’ll just travel with a manifold and start ripping apart rental tanks on the boat so I can stay blessed...

For a quick release long hose clip, use one of the dive rite bungee toggle things. Attach the bungee to the clip with a single prusik loop, then put the toggle between the bungee to hold it together around the hose. It pops right off the hose if you give it a good tug. And you don't lose the bungee. Not sure why Dive Rite hasn't figured this out yet, but don't follow their attachment directions if you want a quick release.

Ding ding ding we have a winner! Why *isn’t* that the standard way to use one? Breakaway and replaceable when they do. And if the hose retainers are DIR, maybe I’ll even be able to sit near the cool kids without changing things.

Though I do have to say that magnets would be even easier, and might not have any actual drawbacks. I just have the creepy too clever by half feeling of gimmick solution...

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it.

 

[2airishuman]

When traveling, it can be difficult or even impossible to get manifolded doubles. I have created travel doubles cam bands (inspired by post #3 here: DIY: travelling twin cam band ) I use my standard backmount doubles regulators (7' hose from right post, 24" necklaced from left, primary donate), and I add a SPG to the right post which goes under my arm and clips off on the right chest D-ring.
[...]
And for the record: independent doubles are not a solution I would use on a tech dive. These are advanced recreational wreck dives, from a boat with a bunch of single-tank divers, so I'm already worlds ahead of what any insta-buddy should expect from anyone. (That's why the independent doubles are so important to me: I want the self-reliance for *me*!)
[...]
I look forward to any suggestions -- and reasons behind them! -- that you might have.

I have a DSS backplate and wing that are designed to accept either a twinset or independent doubles. There are two places for cambands, one left one right, so each cylinder is held in place by a camband. Allows for flexibility in the situation you describe. I guess my backplate and wing are collectors items now, we'll see.

Like you I use them with ordinary doubles regulators. However I route the second SPG under my left arm and use contrasting colors to keep them straight. That way I can check both pressures with one look and keep my right side uncluttered.

I did not find the weight difference to be noticeable from a side-to-side-trim standpoint.

So, we're talking about recreational dives, right?

The easiest way to proceed is just stay on the right post until the dive is over. It's a rec dive, you're diving with twice as much gas as your instabuddy, so you're good. You choose a rock bottom pressure much as you would for a dive with a single primary cylinder plus a pony.

For your second dip you swap a full cylinder in for the empty and do it again. You've brought three cylinders, one of them is still pretty much full.

If you're going to use the air in both cylinders, then like tbone wrote upthread, you start and end the dive on the long hose and use the necklace in the middle. One of the things not mentioned upthread is that there is some risk of freeflow on the long hose while you're using the necklace, especially if you tune your primary reg a little closer to the edge than the necklace, so you have to pay attention to that when it's clipped off.

 

[MichaelMc]

On SPGs, I have a DiveRite Rec wing which has side bungees that shrink it for single tank use. For the right cylinder I'd routed a 21" thin line SPG through the top few bungee straps on the right side. I can reach it easily and bend it into view under my shoulder. It feels like it stays fairly tucked up otherwise.

Below is the same right 21" HP hose routed down the left shoulder strap, with a short 12" inflator, but I've not dove it yet that way. I've been curious about this setup and how the lengths played out. This is with tiny AL40 doubles so the first stages are a bit closer to the plate, standard 8.5" c-t-c tank separation.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

First off, I admit freely that I didn't read all of the posts in this thread. But I have a question. And I suppose it could be for indy doubles and SM. Rather than dive a long hose and a necklace....why wouldn't you just use two long hoses? Then the question of which hose to donate becomes a moot point. No matter which reg happens to be in your mouth, it's always the primary while it's in use so it's not a problem to donate it. The only real downside I can see is that stowing two long hoses might not be ideal. I'm no tech diver and definitely don't have the vast experience most of you guys here do but I want to learn all that I can so I can segway over to the dark side soon. And I'm not necessarily interested in hard core tech diving....more recreational that allows me to go deeper for longer and for wreck penetration.

 

[tbone1004]

@Sh0rtBus
two problems, one mitigated more easily than the other

With non reversible regulators, the left hose will cross under the diver when air sharing. This decreases the effective length of the hose, causes interference with kicking as the hose floats into the diver, and causes excessive torque in the mouth of the diver the hose is cross to. With a left handed or reversible regulator, this problem goes away, but then you are limited to about half a dozen second stages on the market *Apeks XTX series, Poseidon x3, Dive Rite XT, and Hollis 500se/Oceanic Omega*. Not a huge issue, but it is limiting. This is why I am vehemently opposed to those that dive with the long hose on the left, short hose on the right, like Dive Rite used to teach. I'm 6'4" so I use a 9' hose when diving sidemount because a 7' is barely long enough, so to shorten it that much more is to me as unacceptable as diving with a 5' hose.

Second bigger issue has 3 compounding factors and all center around the hoses crossing your body behind your neck. In the standard "Bogaerthian" setup, the left side bottle crosses behind your neck to the right side similar to backmount, and the long hose goes from right to left and back to right, also similar to backmount.
First one is the crossing allows some extra length to be put in the hoses to make turning your head more comfortable. If the hoses come straight up to your mouth, they tend to tug as you look away from that bottle which is a little annoying.
Second one is jaw fatigue is compounded by your mouth having to hold the weight of the hose and regulator, plus the torque caused during head rotation. This is especially uncomfortable in high-flow caves, high current in the ocean, and on a DPV.
Third one and arguably the most critical is that the hoses are much easier to get ripped out of your mouth when squeezing in true sidemount passages. When the hoses are crossed behind your neck, they can't pull straight down, but if they run straight up to your mouth, they can get ripped out quite easily. This is only a safety issue for those that dive true sidemount restrictions, but it's a very real concern.