Master scuba diver - why the negativity?

[DevonDiver]

I think there are 3 major issues with MSD:

1) Missed Opportunity. It could be a qualification, rather than a certification. It's a wasted opportunity to put some good training and standards into the system at the 'top end'. There is so much that PADI 'could have done' with the MSD.

2) The Title. The use of the word 'Master' is provocative to many people. 50 dives is a very minimal amount of experience and to use this in terms of the 'pinnacle' of the training system just reeks of under-achievement. Personally, I think that this is heavily influenced by the Divemaster experience pre-requisites. Perhaps PADI don't want the DM qualification 'under-mined'. If the MSD certification required, for example, 100 dives then it would imply that Divemaster hadn't yet reached 'master' level diving?

3) Marketing Ploy. Because it is a qualification, based on cumulative prior learning, many see this as a simple sales tool that encourages divers to 'stick with the program'.

 

[scubadada]

I think there are 3 major issues with MSD:

1) Missed Opportunity. It could be a qualification, rather than a certification. It's a wasted opportunity to put some good training and standards into the system at the 'top end'. There is so much that PADI 'could have done' with the MSD.

2) The Title. The use of the word 'Master' is provocative to many people. 50 dives is a very minimal amount of experience and to use this in terms of the 'pinnacle' of the training system just reeks of under-achievement. Personally, I think that this is heavily influenced by the Divemaster experience pre-requisites. Perhaps PADI don't want the DM qualification 'under-mined'. If the MSD certification required, for example, 100 dives then it would imply that Divemaster hadn't yet reached 'master' level diving?

3) Marketing Ploy. Because it is a qualification, based on cumulative prior learning, many see this as a simple sales tool that encourages divers to 'stick with the program'.

Points all well taken. I had 125 dives when I qualified for MSD, an arbitrary number of qualifying dives. This could easly be a different number. 250 dives would definitely make this a dfferent qualification, perhaps for the better.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Mike Boswell]

It seems to create a lot of debate. If someone advances their training and wants to have something to show for that - why do people have a problem?

Not everyone has the want/desire to become a dive master or instructor so having a final cert for rec divers seems appropriate.

Good question. "Why" indeed.

If a 12-year-old diver with 50 dives under his belt loves diving and wants to learn and advance his skills under the supervision of a PADI instructor, why shouldn't he do that?

I think the only sensible answer is, he should. He should learn all he can, if that's what he wants to do.

And he should avoid Scubaboard, because there are people here who will try to make him feel ashamed of his achievement.

 

[hypertech]

I wonder how many of the people who like to rag on this cert so bad meet the requirements to get it?

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I do not meet the requirements. I don't have 5 of their specialty cards, which I've heard is the requirement. That and the cost of the card.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah it's been discussed to death. I always wonder what the big fuss is about. As pointed out, everyone seems to know exactly what a PADI MSD is. And what it means with other agencies. It's not good or bad. It just is. I'm a really good clarinet player with a Masters in Performance. I am not of major symphony calibre and never will be. It is what it is.

 

[Crush]

I think there are 3 major issues with MSD:

1) Missed Opportunity. It could be a qualification, rather than a certification. It's a wasted opportunity to put some good training and standards into the system at the 'top end'. There is so much that PADI 'could have done' with the MSD.

DevonDiver, I was going to respond to your post (above) with "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in PADI," only you already know this.

Did I mis-read your post? There are earned MSDs out there, though the standards pale beside what is implied by the title.

Do I possess a MSD certification through NAUI? Yes. Did I carry out extra dives, take extra instruction, and pass an exam for it (as opposed to mail in some money)? Yes. Am I a "Master Scuba Diver?" In title only. However, I personally find it preferable to learn through active instruction by a certified instructor than to develop and then reinforce bad habits, and I would be prone to do.

PADI may be how the world learns to dive (or whatever they say nowadays), but we shouldn't paint the world their shade of red, blue, and white.

 

[Rhone Man]

I have been developing another theory as to why there is so much hatin' on the MSD certification (although I suspect Andy pretty much nailed it in post 19, and no matter what I type, eventually Thal will come back and repeat all his points from other threads about how PADI led the race to the bottom).

My new theory is that many divers, particularly accomplished divers, reject the idea that any diving certification operates as an assurance of excellence.

If you poke through the threads you will come across plenty of discussions about lousy instructors. And for my money it is true enough - there are plenty of people out there who have gotten through IDEs despite the fact that, frankly, they are not very good divers. I've met plenty and I bet others have too.

What is true of instructors is most certainly also true of MSDs. There are plenty who haven't even mastered buoyancy control, much less mastered scuba diving. People get the MSD rating without diving outside of a quarry.

And what seems to make it all virtually impossible for really accomplish divers to swallow is the marketing hype that gets attached to the MSD rating. I won't repeat it all here, but we all know the stuff PADI throws about. The other agencies too.

And, just to round the theory out - I suspect if the MSD rating was completely revamped top to bottom someone somewhere would still b*tch about it. (Probably some Navy Master divers.) Some people just need that validation.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

One day somebody is going to start a thread describing how they got separated from their buddy because they silted up the area with split fins. They end up losing sitautional awareness and have an OOA incident, partly due to their wireless air integrated computer losing a signal.
They will go on to describe how in what they thought might be their final moments, a diver appears.

This mystery rescuer will save their life by donating a spare air bottle and escort them to the surface. Stopping for 3 minutes at the hang bar under the boat.

They'll conclude the story of their rescue by revealing that their rescuer was a PADI Master Diver. A fact they were able to confirm by the "PADI Master diver" tab sewn on the shoulder of their wetsuit.

When a thread like this one get posted, all of us "haters" will be eating our words.


-Mitch

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

It seems to create a lot of debate. If someone advances their training and wants to have something to show for that - why do people have a problem?

Not everyone has the want/desire to become a dive master or instructor so having a final cert for rec divers seems appropriate.

I am enrolled in Master Diver through NAUI and I dont give a DAMN what people think. It is really the hardest of any course by far that I have taken as it is 90% education and math. You get deep in the physics and that is what I am studying now. I know some people that have been diving longer then me will make a stink but Whocares. I want to learn as much as I can and am taking that course very seriously that way when I am done I know I earned it. I am not a card collector I am about the skill and knowledge so if anybody has a problem with that it's just that "There problem". Good luck to you and you do what you feel is best.