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Rick Inman:
But, I'm wondering, why the same connection type. You're not going to switch regs underwater...???


Yes I would switch out a reg from one cylinder to another if I had to. The regs can handle it just be certain to service them after the dive. The same connection type allows for easier switching if one had to. All tank valves should be the same as that for the regs being used.
 
GDI:
Yes I would switch out a reg from one cylinder to another if I had to. The regs can handle it just be certain to service them after the dive. The same connection type allows for easier switching if one had to. All tank valves should be the same as that for the regs being used.
Cool. Thank you.
 
Why DIN unless your running high pressure equipment? Yokes have done just fine for stuff to 3000 PSI and some of us may be running 2500 PSI stuff.

If the back up regulator is from a major manufactuer with a good reputation why does it need to be the equal of your primary--all it realy needs to be is reliable/well maintained and some "cheap" regulators like the Conshelf are very reliable for example?

What if a person has been diving for, oh say 36 years, has OW, Advanced and Assistent Instructor, has made several thousand dives and has never logged one single stink'n dive and never will?

Spare Air, well, if I was in some sort of undesireable situation and somone handed me a Spar Air, I imagine that I would not turn it down.

When I took my Naui course in 1966ish or whenever the heck it was, we had to assemble the tank and regulator underwater, the equipment including the mask and fins was all thrown in the deep end of the pool. You had to swim down, don the gear, surface and the go back down and take it all back apart--doff the gear--- and surface. Sometimes the instructor would reverse the sequence just for torture. Apparently this is no longer taught?

I don't think I qualify for the solo diving course, would like to take one however, maybe. N
 
Why DIN unless your running high pressure equipment? Yokes have done just fine for stuff to 3000 PSI and some of us may be running 2500 PSI stuff.

"Fine" is a subjective term. DIN is more secure and almost impossible to knock loose. I suspect you'll also change your mind about the definition of what constitutes "high pressure" once you've seen a yoke connection knocked off a valve.

If the back up regulator is from a major manufactuer with a good reputation why does it need to be the equal of your primary--all it realy needs to be is reliable/well maintained and some "cheap" regulators like the Conshelf are very reliable for example?

If a Conshelf is adequate for your diving needs, then it's adequate for your alternate. The question is what is adequate and when are you likely to experience your greatest need? What may well be perfectly sufficient for the working portion of a routine dive might well be completely inadequate in the high-stress environment of an emergency. Factor in reliability issues for a piece of equipment less likely to have been recently operated and you have the basics for the argument that your alternate should be at least as good as your primary.

What if a person has been diving for, oh say 36 years, has OW, Advanced and Assistent Instructor, has made several thousand dives and has never logged one single stink'n dive and never will?

Then you don't get to take the class? Aside from questions about how someone gets to be an Assistant Instructor without logged dives, if you want to take the class, how hard is it to sit down and fill in a log?

Spare Air, well, if I was in some sort of undesireable situation and somone handed me a Spar Air, I imagine that I would not turn it down.

Probably not. Then, again, if I was out of gas at 60 feet I probably wouldn't turn down a bottle of O2. Better than nothing doesn't equate with good enough.

When I took my Naui course in 1966ish or whenever the heck it was, we had to assemble the tank and regulator underwater, the equipment including the mask and fins was all thrown in the deep end of the pool. You had to swim down, don the gear, surface and the go back down and take it all back apart--doff the gear--- and surface. Sometimes the instructor would reverse the sequence just for torture. Apparently this is no longer taught?

Things change - usually for the better. I don't believe that any recreational agencies teach this skill in entry level courses any more.
 
I don't think dropping the harder parts of the earlier courses makes todays instruction better. All I see on this board are complaints about incompetant divers who have no bouyancy control, bad buddy skills, etc. Like Nemrod I am a product of the earlier training which I believe weeded out those who did not have the necessary water skills and comfort. These things can sometimes be taught but it would take making the instruction longer than it was years ago. I believe before anyone contemplates diving they should be completely comfortable in the water and this doesn't mean just being able to swim to the other side of the pool.

Captain
 
captain:
I don't think dropping the harder parts of the earlier courses makes todays instruction better. All I see on this board are complaints about incompetant divers who have no bouyancy control, bad buddy skills, etc. Like Nemrod I am a product of the earlier training which I believe weeded out those who did not have the necessary water skills and comfort. These things can sometimes be taught but it would take making the instruction longer than it was years ago. I believe before anyone contemplates diving they should be completely comfortable in the water and this doesn't mean just being able to swim to the other side of the pool.

Captain


yep if I had my druthers some of the comfort/survival skills from the old courses would be included with the addition of the buoyancy control, trim and general technique some of which wasn't in the older courses because the bc was new or non-existant. Of course some instructors teach both and some agencies encourage more of it than others.

All of these skills, IMO, are critical but especially so for potentially more challanging diving like solo diving. The control related skills help avoid trouble and deal with problems without causing more problems and the survival skills teach confidence and not giving up. Panic happens when people feel totally out of control, give up and turn into non-thinking animals driven by instinct alone. The problem is that we don't naturally posses any instincts that are of any value to us under water...you have to keep your witts about you and continue to work toward a solution even when you're fairly certain that you're going to die. That doesn't usually happen without training and a couple hours of doing skills on your knees don't get you there.
 
Steven, I guess I am dissagreeing with you. For one thing, the Conshelf is adequate for just about anything so if someone had a super duper fancy modern neon colored plastic regulator go TU then I think the old Conshelf would be a welcome sight indeed. The Cousteau team made thousands of dives, they used Mistral double hose regs, I bet they did not log dives either (maybe they did --who knows), my point is there are more than one solution and as good as yours is (and it is a good one) it is not the only one.

Logging dives began with Padi I think, I don't do PADI, that is how I got Advanced (not Advanced OW but Advanced) and AI without logged dives.

SpareAir is still air and for OW it is better than nothing though I agree there are better solutions.

Skill training in modern Scuba classes is totally lacking, the courses taught in the 60s were the equal of most advanced and tech courses taught today--did not pass--you did not dive--did not get a C-card--so there was no reason to proove you could dive with a log book. The C-card used to mean something.

As to yokes, yes DIN is better, a yoke is nonetheless just fine for OW diving. In caves and other overhead obstruction areas and some sorts of tech diving--DIN is far superior, OW diving the yoke is sufficient even for SOLO. After all this time I might have one knocked off next dive but then a meteor might land in my living room as well. By the way, I have both types of equipment available to me. N

Merry Christmas.
 
Nemrod:
Logging dives began with Padi I think, I don't do PADI, that is how I got Advanced (not Advanced OW but Advanced) and AI without logged dives.
.

I think the navy was logging dives before PADI was invented


Nemrod:
SpareAir is still air and for OW it is better than nothing though I agree there are better solutions.
.

I too would accept a spare air as an alternative to drowning but the context of this thread is about solo traing. I am also a solo instructor and like GDI do not accept spare air as a redundant breathing source.



Merry Christmas.
 
If you have ever taken training from GDI. You would learn that he is a hardass and that there is a reason for the way he does things. GDI did not learn his basic OW class from PADI. ACUC was his initial certification and he was taught by some hard core instructors
 
Steven, I guess I am dissagreeing with you.

This happens from time to time and I'm learning to deal with it, although I am flabbergasted every time. :wink:

For one thing, the Conshelf is adequate for just about anything so if someone had a super duper fancy modern neon colored plastic regulator go TU then I think the old Conshelf would be a welcome sight indeed. The Cousteau team made thousands of dives, they used Mistral double hose regs, I bet they did not log dives either (maybe they did --who knows), my point is there are more than one solution and as good as yours is (and it is a good one) it is not the only one.

I didn't mean to impugn the Conshelf. If it's adequate for your needs, it's adequate. I thought the discussion was about whether a second-rate alternate was a wise choice. As to Jacques and his crew, I don't know if they always logged their dives but they sure kept a heck of a video journal of their doings.

Logging dives began with Padi I think, I don't do PADI, that is how I got Advanced (not Advanced OW but Advanced) and AI without logged dives.

So far as I know, logging dives began with the military, not PADI. I know that I learned to log during my NASDS OW training in 1971. As enthusiastic as you are about the old days of military-style training, I would have thought you were a log every dive kind of guy. :crafty:

SpareAir is still air and for OW it is better than nothing though I agree there are better solutions.

We agree! Better than nothing ain't much of a standard, however.

Skill training in modern Scuba classes is totally lacking, the courses taught in the 60s were the equal of most advanced and tech courses taught today--did not pass--you did not dive--did not get a C-card--so there was no reason to proove you could dive with a log book. The C-card used to mean something.

This is an ongoing subject of debate and not one that I really want to get into deeply. Let me just say that I learned to dive in the old days from an ex-Navy diver who thoroughly whomped our butts on a routine basis. Though good and honest people can differ on this, I think the training today is "good enough" (as measured by the growth in popularity of diving and the relative paucity of corpses floating around popular dive sites) and has some limited advantages over the old methods and curriculum. Sure, newby divers in the old days were better divers than newby divers today, but so what? By breaking the skills required to become an accomplished diver into discreet pieces it takes longer to become a good diver but more people are able to achieve it. A fair trade, so long as people aren't getting hurt at an unreasonable rate during the process. I will take issue with your suggestion that the old OW classes were the equal of today's technical classes - as someone with first hand experience with both, I can unequivocably say that isn't accurate.

As to yokes, yes DIN is better, a yoke is nonetheless just fine for OW diving. In caves and other overhead obstruction areas and some sorts of tech diving--DIN is far superior, OW diving the yoke is sufficient even for SOLO. After all this time I might have one knocked off next dive but then a meteor might land in my living room as well. By the way, I have both types of equipment available to me.

We agree, DIN is far superior to yoke. Where we disagree is whether or not yoke connectors are sufficient for recreational or solo diving. Meteor strikes aside, I've seen yokes knocked loose more than once in the years I've been diving and that's enough for me.

Here's what I don't get - you profess to admire the uncompromising training you got in the old days and look down on the watered-down training popular today, yet when it comes time to take one of these modern classes it appears that you also find the new-fangled training to be too uncompromising. In the venacular, wazzupwidat?

Merry Christmas.

& a Happy New Year.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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