Requirement to do night dives

[KeithG]

Please elaborate on why you think OW can not do night dives. Then explain boat dive restrictions. And drift dive restrictions. References to supporting formal material would be helpful.

Or maybe we need to discuss the use of a camera without the PADI Digital Underwater Photographer course? I guess I am totally screwed if I want to use a Nikonos?

 

[KeithG]

And maybe the issue in this thread is understanding the difference between rules and guidelines and when to apply them. This could be a cultural issue. I worked in an industry in Canada that was principles based (do no harm) whereas my US counterparts where rule based (look for the loop hole, screw everyone you can).

Certification agencies make tons of rules that apply to training dives. They also suggest guidelines for other dives. Guidelines are not rules.

 

[NAM001]

Please elaborate on why you think OW can not do night dives. Then explain boat dive restrictions. And drift dive restrictions. References to supporting formal material would be helpful.

You dont do dives that you are not trained or have experience in doing. An OW has neither administratively. you want references then look in a padi ow book it is there. No there is no scuba police to enforce it and you sign a waiver with boat ops so they are no longer liable. Now tell me why an OW can, should what ever not do a cave dive. The same rules to both situations. The diferrence is that cavers do not want to have deaths in thier caves and they self police to keep their sites open.

 

[Storker]

I guess I am totally screwed if I want to use a Nikonos?

No, you aren't screwed. OTOH, whether you are a nostalgic old curmudgeon or a douchey hipster is impossible to determine without additional evidence.

 

[Storker]

Now tell me why an OW can, should what ever not do a cave dive. The same rules to both situations.

And here, kids, is a classic textbook example of Reductio ad absurdum

 

[KeithG]

And here, kids, is a classic textbook example of Reductio ad absurdum

I was expecting a monty python like piece of entertainment. Instead I was subjected to an appeal for money since it seems the rest of canada has not yet given enough to the wiki people.

 

[Edward3c]

...
Certification agencies make tons of rules that apply to training dives. They also suggest guidelines for other dives. Guidelines are not rules.

Call them rules, recommendations, guidelines, etc. If the .... hits the fan the liability lawyers will argue they were mandatory. A good defence, at least in the UK, is a written risk assessment, (waivers are useless in the U.K).

 

[KeithG]

No, you aren't screwed. OTOH, whether you are a nostalgic old curmudgeon or a douchey hipster is impossible to determine without additional evidence.

Curmudgeon? yes, but not very nostalgic. Just able to remember some things better than others. Now where are my glasses?

P.S. I have been nominated to be Santa at a local christmas party. I asked for a grinch costume. They were not amused.

 

[DevonDiver]

Or maybe we need to discuss the use of a camera without the PADI Digital Underwater Photographer course? I guess I am totally screwed if I want to use a Nikonos?

It's funny, but I do see plenty of examples of novice divers losing situational awareness in the rush to take camwras and GoPro on dives. That leads (often) to failures in the buddy/team system and low-on-gas incidents.

A good photo course, targetted on individual diver needs would address issues like this.

And, of course, it should distinctly improve photo results.

So....should it be mandatory? No. . .

Is it necessary? That depends on the diver concerned and whether they are ready to cope (solid fundamentals) with extra task loading and distraction. If a course has a tangible benefit to diver safety, then it has a value.

What really matters is finding an instructor capable of focusing course goals on what an individual diver needs. A good instructor can make any course extremely beneficial for the diver.

Regarding "what's needed" by that diver turning up at a dive center... the answer is COMPETENCY.

It'd be wonderful if training equalled competency, but that's not a fact of life in the diving industry.

However, instead of being cynical of what agencies and/or dive centers demand in respect of qualification... if divers paid more attention to their actual ability and competency... they wouldn't encounter scebarios where they were refused X, Y or Z diving . . .

 

[dmaziuk]

And here, kids, is a classic textbook example of Reductio ad absurdum

I think we all generally agree that recreational 'sports' diving ('OW' is a misnomer), serious deco dives, and caving are three different beasts with very different requirements, training, and equipment levels. If that wasn't the case it'd be an ad absurdum, as it is, it is a fallacy. I'd say false equivalence.

(Abusing formal logic for fun and profit since last millenium.)